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Ukraine Invasion: Part 40

994 replies

MagicFox · 13/05/2023 15:17

40 threads, still here πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

OP posts:
Thread gallery
221
MissConductUS · 15/05/2023 20:39

Ukraine is a bit closer to getting the US-Israeli Iron Dome air defense system.

US general: Iron Dome ready to deploy if Ukraine asks - The army has one battery available, the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense commander said.

I doubt this would have been announced if the political challenges weren't one their way to resolution. If they get it, I hope it's fielded to protect Ukrainian forces getting ready for the counteroffensive.

US general: Iron Dome ready to deploy if Ukraine asks - JNS.org

The army has one battery available, the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense commander said.

https://www.jns.org/us-general-iron-dome-ready-to-deploy-if-ukraine-asks

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/05/2023 07:24

....... no less than six Kinzal missiles (the 'unstoppable' hypersonic ones) were shot down last night.

@notimagain you were right that they aren't a game-changer :D cheers

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/05/2023 08:06

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-15-2023

Key Takeaways

  • Leaked US intelligence accessed by The Washington Post indicates that Wagner Group financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin offered to disclose the locations of Russian positions to Ukrainian intelligence in exchange for Bakhmut.
  • Ukrainian officials acknowledged limited Ukrainian battlefield successes during recent localized counterattacks in and around Bakhmut.
  • Russian milbloggers uniformly attacked a proposal for β€œmilitary censorship,” further indicating that the community is highly motivated to defend its privileged position within the Russian information space.
  • The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that it intercepted a Ukrainian Storm Shadow missile for the first time on May 15.
  • The Kremlin has reportedly banned high-ranking officials from resigning during the war in Ukraine, likely in an attempt to maintain stability within domestic security organs, government bodies, and the Russian military command.
  • Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky met with French President Emmanuel Macron and UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak on May 14 and 15 confirming the provision of more Western military aid.
  • Russian sources claimed that Russian forces captured Masyutivka, Kharkiv Oblast and established a bridgehead on the west bank of the Oskil River, but ISW has observed no visual confirmation of these claims.
  • Russian forces continued to launch ground assaults in and around Bakhmut and conducted limited offensive operations near Donetsk City.
  • Ukrainian intelligence reported that approximately 152,000 Russian military personnel in southern Ukraine continue defensive efforts ahead of a possible Ukrainian counteroffensive.
  • Russian authorities continue efforts to take advantage of migrant labor and incentivize foreigners into contract military service.
  • Russian officials and occupation authorities continue to set conditions to forcibly relocate Ukrainians from occupied territories to Russia.
  • Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko received a briefing from Belarusian generals on May 15 following recent speculation about his possible illness or death.
Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/05/2023 08:07

from Twitter:
#Macron announced the transfer of long-range SCALP missiles (French version of Storm Shadow) to #Ukraine. @notimagain

notimagain · 16/05/2023 08:07

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

Fingers crossed all Russian wonder weapons remain similarly un-wonderful...

On a slightly less positive note, on the subject of UK support for the Ukraine, in particular the provision of pilot training ...a bit of a TL:DR follows

The general feeling about this over the months was that the RAF would provide some niche effectively post graduate level training, maybe on NATO standard cockpit displays and tactics. That should be well within the UKs current capability and I hope it would get unqualified support domestically

However yesterday eyebrows were raised at the UKs (Rishi's?) promise that "This summer we will commence an elementary flying phase for cohorts of Ukrainian pilots to learn basic training." (see the HM gov link). That's a much bigger deal and eyebrows are raised because the UK has been struggling to provide that for it's own pilots for many years.

Just by chance (??) last weekend the UK's Chief of the Air Staff signed a deal with an Italian training provider to obtain access to a joint military/civil training school in Sardinia...were the purse strings loosened to improve the lot of UK military trainees or was it only done to allow this show of support?

No doubt it's a good thing either way but if it was the latter there'll be some raised voices behind closed doors in Whitehall.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-welcomes-president-zelenskyy-to-the-uk-ahead-of-anticipated-ukrainian-military-surge#:~:text=In%20February%20the%20Prime%20Minister,pilots%20to%20learn%20basic%20training.

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/budget-policy-operations/uk-royal-air-force-will-send-trainee-pilots-italy

https://news.sky.com/story/uks-ability-to-train-fast-jet-pilots-in-crisis-due-to-faulty-aircraft-and-instructors-shortage-leaked-documents-suggest-12666275

PM welcomes President Zelenskyy to the UK ahead of anticipated Ukrainian military surge

President Zelenskyy has arrived in the UK this morning for discussions with the Prime Minister on Ukraine’s ongoing military resistance to Putin’s brutal invasion.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-welcomes-president-zelenskyy-to-the-uk-ahead-of-anticipated-ukrainian-military-surge#:~:text=In%20February%20the%20Prime%20Minister,pilots%20to%20learn%20basic%20training.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 16/05/2023 09:36

An interesting map from War Mapper@warmapper on Twitter which shows how little the Russians have captured in the past year of this horrific invasion.
All that human, economic & ecological suffering for what?

This is how the frontline has changed in Ukraine over the last year.

Russia's advances are shown in dark red, and Ukraine's advances are shown in blue.

https://twitter.com/warmapper/status/1658294757527887872?s=61&t=NaIdJJ_hpeHJ7BCXblc3CMg

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/05/2023 10:12

Kyiv Independent Telegram

⚑️Reuters: G7 to introduce stricter sanctions (https://kyivindependent.com/reuters-g7-new-sanctions-against-russia/) against Russian exports, energy sector. The sanctions will "seek to undermine Russia's future energy production and curb trade that supports Russia's military," Reuters wrote, citing unnamed officials with direct knowledge of discussions.

Temur Umarov: Why did Central Asia’s leaders agree to attend Moscow’s military parade? (https://kyivindependent.com/temur-umarov-why-did-central-asias-leaders-agree-to-attend-moscows-military-parade/)

⚑️Reuters: Top Chinese envoy to visit Ukraine, Russia (https://kyivindependent.com/reuters-top-chinese-envoy-to-make-trips-to-ukraine-russia/) to discuss 'political settlement'.
A top Chinese envoy is set to visit Ukraine, Russia, and several other European countries in a trip that Beijing said is geared toward the "political settlement" of Russia's full-scale war against Ukraine.
Li Hui, China's special representative for Eurasian affairs and a former ambassador to Russia, is set to begin a diplomatic tour of Ukraine, Russia, Poland, France, and Germany, Reuters reported on May 15, citing a Chinese Foreign Ministry announcement.

⚑️Ukrainian intelligence: Around 152,000 Russian servicemembers (https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-military-intelligence-around-152-000-russian-servicemembers-in-occupied-zaporizhzhia-kherson-oblasts/) in occupied Zaporizhzhia, Kherson oblasts.

⚑️Russian state media: Russian proxy official injured in explosion (https://kyivindependent.com/russian-proxy-official-injured-in-explosion/).
Igor Kornet, the so-called "acting interior minister" of Russia's proxies in Luhansk Oblast, was injured in an explosion, according to Russian state-controlled media.

⚑️Putin simplifies citizenship process (https://kyivindependent.com/putin-simplifies-citizenship-process-for-foreigners-fighting-on-russias-side-in-ukraine/) for foreigners fighting for Russia in Ukraine.
Russian dictator Vladimir Putin signed a decree simplifying the citizenship process on May 15 for foreigners and stateless people fighting in the Russian military against Ukraine, according to Russian government site.

⚑️Russia claims (https://kyivindependent.com/russia-claims-downing-uk-provided-storm-shadow-missile/) downing Storm Shadow missile for the first time.
Russian Defense Ministry said for the first time that Russian troops had intercepted a Storm Shadow long-range missile supplied to Ukraine by the U.K., Reuters reported on May 15.

⚑️Military official: Ukrainian forces advance on Bakhmut flanks (https://kyivindependent.com/military-official-ukrainian-forces-advance-on-bakhmut-flanks-despite-russias-fierce-resistance/) despite Russia's 'fierce resistance.'
In the past two days, Ukraine's Armed Forces have advanced on the flanks around Bakhmut from 350 m to 2 km "in some places," a spokesperson for the Ukrainian military's Eastern Operational Command said on May 15.

⚑️Macron says (https://kyivindependent.com/macron-says-door-is-open-to-train-ukrainian-pilots-on-fighter-jets/) 'door is open' to train Ukrainian pilots on fighter jets.
France has "opened the door" for training Ukrainian pilots on fighter jets, French President Emmanuel Macron said in an interview on May 15, as cited by Le Monde.
The training "can start now," Macron told the TF1 broadcaster, adding that it may be held with "several other European countries who are also ready."

⚑️Media: Supreme Court head detained (https://kyivindependent.com/media-supreme-court-head-detained-for-accepting-3-million-bribe/) for accepting $3 million bribe.
Ukraine's Supreme Court Chairman Vsevolod Kniaziev was arrested when receiving a bribe of about $3 million, Ukrainian media outlet Ukrainska Pravda reported on May 15, citing sources in law enforcement.
The National Anti-Corruption Bureau (NABU) and the Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office (SAPO) confirmed they had exposed a "large-scale corruption scheme in the Supreme Court" carried out by the court's leadership and judges. [heck, the supreme court head. In a weird and terrible way, this war has allowed possibilities Ukraine to clean up its act that would not have been there otherwise - and they are taking that opportunity with intense vigor]

⚑️ Pentagon confirms (https://kyivindependent.com/pentagon-confirms-31-abrams-tanks-delivery-to-germany-training-of-ukrainian-troops-to-begin-soon/) 31 Abrams tanks delivery to Germany, training of Ukrainian troops to begin soon.
The U.S. has delivered 31 Abrams tanks to Grafenwoehr, in Germany, where training of Ukrainian forces will begin in the next few weeks, Pentagon spokesman General Patrick Ryder said during a press briefing on May 15.

⚑️ Air strike of β€œexceptional intensity" (https://kyivindependent.com/air-strikes-of-exceptional-intensity-hit-kyiv-on-may-16/)” hits Kyiv on May 16.
The Russian forces likely used drones, ballistic, and cruise missiles in the attack from multiple directions, according to the administration’s Telegram post.

⚑️Air Force: Ukraine's air defense shoots (https://kyivindependent.com/air-defense-downs-18-missiles/) down 18 Russian missiles overnight including six Kinzhal ballistic missiles, nine Kalibr missiles and three land-based missiles, including both S-400 and Iskander-M missiles, the Air Force said.

https://t.me/KyivIndependent_official/18708

⚑️ General Staff: Russian forces raid train stations (https://kyivindependent.com/general-staff-russian-forces-raid-train-stations-in-crimea/) in Crimea.
Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) and Ministry of Internal Affairs task forces raided train stations and bus terminals to increase control over the population in illegally annexed Crimea, according to Ukraine’s General Staff.

⚑️Officials: 6 people killed (https://kyivindependent.com/6-people-killed-in-russian-attacks-on-kharkiv-donetsk-oblasts/) in Russian attacks on Kharkiv, Donetsk oblasts.

The Kyiv Independent

⚑️Debris from Russian missiles causes fires, infrastructure damage in Kyiv. The debris of Russian missiles shot down over Kyiv caused fires and damages in several districts, the State Emergency Service reported on May 16. The most damage occurred...

https://t.me/KyivIndependent_official/18708

notimagain · 16/05/2023 10:17

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

Air strike of β€œexceptional intensity" (https://kyivindependent.com/air-strikes-of-exceptional-intensity-hit-kyiv-on-may-16/)”hits Kyiv on May 16.
The Russian forces likely used drones, ballistic, and cruise missiles in the attack from multiple directions, according to the administration’s Telegram post.

From some reports it looks it was a serious attempt at suppression of Ukraine Air Defences, and there are unconfirmed reports that a Patriot battery took a direct hit.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/05/2023 10:26

I saw that .. the Russians are claiming it. They're as reliable as a lead weight floating on a pile of feathers, but losses are going to happen.

Do you remember how many Patriots there are in Ukraine now?

notimagain · 16/05/2023 10:30

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

Do you remember how many Patriots there are in Ukraine now?

Nope, and quite rightly I'm not sure we'll see accurate numbers any time soon.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/05/2023 10:34

UNITED24 Media Telegram

We expect to receive 40-50 F-16 fighters from our partners, β€” in an interview with Politico, adviser to the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Yuriy Sak.
Ukraine wants to get enough planes to form three or four squadrons to protect its skies from Russian bombing, especially against the background of the use of guided glide bombs by the Russians, which hit targets at a greater distance.

Moldova will leave the CIS Inter-Parliamentary Assembly [the Russian 'commonwealth']
This was announced by the Speaker of the Parliament of Moldova Igor Grosu at a briefing
Grosu emphasized that after the Russian Federation, a founding country of the CIS, barbarically attacked another founding country β€” Ukraine, occupying its territories and killing its citizens, this organization can no longer be called a commonwealth.

The government of Armenia tightens control over sanctioned goods at customs, β€” Armenia Today.
Negotiations with the USA preceded the decision. Washington suspects China, Armenia, TΓΌrkiye, and Uzbekistan of supplying prohibited goods to Russia and Belarus.

Parts of Western planes worth millions of dollars got to Russia despite the sanctions, the NYT reports
It became known about more than 5,000 deliveries of aviation parts to the aggressor country during the war β€” from simple propellers to engines worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Among them are the goods of such giants as Boeing and Airbus.
These deliveries were made possible by illegal sanctions evasion schemes involving fictitious buyers. Most of the products were sent through countries such as the United Arab Emirates, TΓΌrkiye, China and the Maldives.

The European office of the World Health Organization is closed in Moscow.
The decision was made by an absolute majority of votes at a special session of the WHO Regional Committee. The office will be moved to Copenhagen (Denmark).

The President of the Czech Republic called on partners to speed up the supply of weapons to Ukraine for a counteroffensive. [I do wish he could be the next NATO Secretary General!]

The girl who tore down and threw the Russian flag on the floor in the occupied Melitopol was sentenced for a year in prison

Also donates to the Armed Forces: Kadyrov bought a horse from the Ukrainian special services for $18,000.
According to the leader of Chechen TikTokers, his thoroughbred horse Zazu has been in the Czech Republic since 2014 due to sanctions. And at the beginning of this year, representatives of the Ukrainian special services came to him and offered to buy him. Zazu cost Kadyrov 18 thousand dollars.
A good donation for the army of Ukraine.

πŸ”»Hungary has blocked the allocation of a new tranche in the amount of 500 million euros for Ukraine from the "European Peace Fund," β€” the Italian agency ANSA, citing a source in Brussels

⚑️Germany will send four more IRIS-T air defense systems
According to Nadine Krugers, a spokesman for the German Ministry of Defense, their production continues.

The United States still does not plan to transfer ATACMS operational-tactical missiles to Ukraine, despite the supply of British Storm Shadow, the White House said.

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡ͺ Georgia allowed the Russian airline "Azimut" to fly in its direction. Moscow β€” Tbilisi flights will start on May 17 and will be operated seven times a week.

πŸ‡·πŸ‡Ί Russian dropped out of the top 10 languages studied by Duolingo users for the first time.
The author of the report writes that the popularity of Russian dropped sharply precisely because of the invasion of Ukraine β€” before that, the occupiers' language confidently held the 8th place.

The French-Italian SAMP/T air defense system is already on combat duty on the territory of Ukraine, reports the Italian publication La Stampa.
SAMP/T can destroy enemy aircraft at a range of 3 km to 100 km and ballistic missiles at a range of 3 km to 25 km, with an altitude of up to 25 km. All eight Aster-30 missiles, contained in one launcher, can be fired in one salvo in 10 seconds.

☒️ A third of Russians expect a nuclear attack on Ukraine
29% of Russians believe that Putin is ready to use nuclear weapons in a war with Ukraine if necessary, according to Levada Center survey data. 60% of Russians hold the opposite opinion.
As many as 29% of respondents consider a nuclear attack on Ukraine justified. Only 56% of Russians believe that the use of nuclear weapons cannot be justified under any circumstances.Only 56% of Russians believe that the use of nuclear weapons cannot be justified under any circumstances. [what a disgusting set of people]

During April alone, the Russian occupiers committed 6,139 war crimes, which led to the death of 207 peaceful Ukrainian citizens, including 11 children, β€” the permanent representative of Ukraine to the UN, Sergiy Kyslytsya, at the UN Security Council, where the humanitarian situation in Ukraine caused by the Russian war was discussed.

All six Kh-47 "Kinzhal" missiles that were shot down at night were flying towards Kyiv, but anti-aircraft defenses destroyed them, said Yuriy Ignat, the spokesman of the Air Force of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

❗️Russia spent at least 120 million dollars on the night attack on Ukraine
The data was calculated by Economichna Pravda (eng. Economic Truth newspaper):
▫️The Kalibr missile costs $6.5 million, i.e. the total cost of the projectiles fired at night is $58.5 million.
▫️Hypersonic missile Kh-47 "Kinzhal" can cost from 10 million dollars and above, the total cost of 6 launches β€” is 60 million dollars.
▫️Iranian attack drones Shahed-136/131, according to information in open sources, cost from 20 thousand dollars up to $50,000 per unit. On average, six such UAVs cost $280,000.
▫️The Russian drone "Orlan-10" costs, according to the General Staff, 100 thousand dollars.
▫️There is no data on the price of the SuperCam drone in open sources, so we will assume that it is close to the price of the Orlan-10 UAV. Therefore, three drones cost 300 thousand dollars.
So, in general, the missiles and drones launched over Ukraine on the night of May 16 cost $119.08 million.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/05/2023 10:56

Live: Ukraine Telegram

The DIU responded to The Washington Post's publication about its alleged contacts with the owner of the Wagner PMC, Yevheniy Prigozhin.
DIU spokesman Andriy Yusov said during a telethon that the intelligence services would discuss such things when it is necessary and in the national interest. "As for individual fakes, I don't think we should comment on it," Yusov added.

The Hague will create a register of destruction caused by Russia during the war against Ukraine, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said. [don't they just need to ask Ukraine for theirs?]

The first HIMARS systems ordered by the Ministry of Defense in 2019 have arrived in Poland.
"We are negotiating another HIMARS deal - the US Congress has approved the sale of almost 500 launchers to Poland," said Defense Minister Mariusz Blaszczak.

πŸ‡ΉπŸ‡· Turkey has officially scheduled a second round of presidential elections. It will be held on May 28. The CEC has counted 99.87% of the ballots. Recep Erdoğan received 49.50%, and his opponent Kemal KΔ±lΔ±Γ§daroğlu received 44.89%.

Ukraine is considering the option that the grain deal will expire on May 18, as previous talks on its extension have failed and there will be no new talks this week.
πŸ“Russia threatens to withdraw from the agreement on May 18 if its demands are not met. It is asking for permission to export Russian grain and fertilizers and to reconnect Rosselkhozbank to SWIFT.

This week, we will dedicate some time to remember the heroic defense of Mariupol and the bravery of the Ukrainian defenders who fought for the city and withheld the attacks for 3 months against all odds.

Lukashenko was shown for the first time in five days amid rumors of his illness.
The photo was released by his press service. Allegedly, he "works at the central command center of the Air Force and Air Defense Forces."

⚑️⚑️The UK will provide Ukraine with hundreds of long-range missiles in addition to the Storm Shadow cruise missiles announced earlier, the BBC reports.
❗️BBC corrected the information about hundreds of long-range missiles. It now states that Ukraine will receive hundreds of missiles for air defense.

Biden administration begins preparing proposal for new defense aid to Ukraine as $48 billion package approved in December runs out in coming months - Politico

The body of the downed Su-34 co-pilot is being searched for in the Bryansk region of Russia: authorities are asking local residents to help with "boats" and "mud boots."

An exhibit at Madame Tussauds or the real Lukashenko?

Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
Ukraine Invasion: Part 40
MissConductUS · 16/05/2023 10:57

notimagain · 16/05/2023 10:30

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

Do you remember how many Patriots there are in Ukraine now?

Nope, and quite rightly I'm not sure we'll see accurate numbers any time soon.

Four. One American, two Dutch, and one German supplied batteries. At least that's what I've seen consistently reported.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 16/05/2023 11:06

so one down is really bad news ... if it's true.

In other info, Poland has placed an order for 500 HIMARS!

MissConductUS · 16/05/2023 14:08

Let's keep in mind that the Russians claim to have destroyed half of the Himars launchers ever made. Also remember that a Patriot installation has multiple radars, launchers and associated vehicles spread out over a wide area, usually several acres. One hit will not always put the entire circus out of action. The UAF also claim to have intercepted six more hypersonic missiles. The Patriots are very well defended.

Humiliation for Putin’s β€˜Unstoppable’ Superweapons Blasted Out of Sky by U.S. Defense System

Humiliation for Putin’s β€˜Unstoppable’ Superweapons Blasted Out of Sky by U.S. Defense System

Photo Illustration by The Daily Beast / Getty / ReutersRussian officials must be reeling in utter disbelief after Ukraine claimed six of their most sophisticated missiles were blasted out of the sky in an incredible night of drama over Kyiv.When Ukrain...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/humiliation-putin-unstoppable-superweapons-blasted-102325626.html

MissConductUS · 16/05/2023 20:33

CNN is reporting that the Patriot was damaged but not destroyed. There were no secondary explosions on the video that the Russians are circulating, so it could have been a generator, control vehicle, or radar head. They're also reporting that only two are in the country. Perhaps the other two I was tracking were promised but not delivered yet.

US assessing potential damage of Patriot missile defense system following Russian attack near Kyiv

US assessing potential damage of Patriot missile defense system following Russian attack near Kyiv | CNN Politics

A US-made Patriot air defense system was likely damaged, but not destroyed, as the result of a Russian missile barrage in and around Kyiv early Tuesday morning local time, a US official tells CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/16/politics/patriot-missile-damage-ukraine/index.html

Mb76 · 16/05/2023 21:10

Checked in with my friends in Kyiv. They are ok, but shaken. They said last night’s attack was the worst one yet. The night was terrifying. Thankful to be alive.

RollerCoaster2020 · 17/05/2023 00:28

I want to say absolutely believe this post will be Deleted because it goes against the pro-Ukraine remit. although, in a strange way, it is helping the ukrainians. The British have recently given and are training the ukrainians in the use of depleted uranium shells for the tanks.

. Depleted uranium would have been a disaster for Ukraine. It renders the land sterile for 100s or thousands of years. In the bread basket of Europe. It also slowly kills the local people, it was used in Iraq and apparently the consequences were horrific for the local people. I've not heard that on the mainstream media or PPC and I doubt the Ukrainian people have heard it either. Am I just being weird and a S**tsterrer, or do other people who have listened to things like the above and multiple other news sources agree?

Putin WARNED him this would happen, he didn't bluff | Redacted with Clayton Morris

You know those depleted uranium tank shells the United Kingdom sent to Ukraine? Reports say that Russian missiles blew them up this weekend. Footage of huge ...

https://youtu.be/6TcP6204p70

MissConductUS · 17/05/2023 02:15

I think your post will not be deleted, because it doesn't seem to break any of the talk guidelines.

Do you really take a youtube video as the source of the revealed truth? Have you checked any of the scientific or medical studies about DU? Did you miss the fact that that video started off with the presenter saying that the west just wanted to kill all Ukrainians? Do you think that's true as well? Here's a fact. Youtubers get paid by the number of page visitors they get. That's why you have people pitching phony cancer cures and political nuttery there.

Did you know that DU is called depleted because most of the radioactive isotopes have been removed, or that it's used in aircraft as trim weights and as radiation shielding in medical equipment?

I've handled DU shells many times. It's only dangerous if you injest the fragments or have them in your body as shrapnel. As to cancers in the middle east, did you know that area received a lot of radioactive fallout from the Chernobyl disaster? There was also widespread exposure to toxic chemicals and malnutrition.

Try looking for the actual science.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.297.5588.1801

Here's what another study found about risks for US veterans and Iraqi civilians exposed to DU.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120204035816/www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2005/def-nonprolif-sec/snl-dusand.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">[[https://web.archive.org/web/20120204035816/www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2005/def-nonprolif-sec/snl-dusand.pdf

7.3 DU-Exposed U.S. Veterans
β€’ DU-induced cancer risks for most Gulf War veterans are extremely small.
β€’ Only a few U.S. veterans, in vehicles accidentally struck by DU penetrators, inhaled sufficient quantities of DU to incur an appreciable fatal cancer risk (~1%, compared to all U.S. civilian fatalities from cancer equal to 24%).
β€’ The risk of radiation-induced cancer for DU-exposed veterans is almost entirely
associated with the risk of lung cancer. All other radiation-induced cancer risks,
including leukemia, are much smaller.
β€’ The risk of radiation-induced birth defects is very small relative to the U.S. average birth defect frequency of about 8% per live birth. For the worst case, the incremental risk is about 0.03%, and for most veterans the risk is extremely small.
β€’ For routine handling of DU munitions or occupation of tanks containing DU
munitions, potential health risks are very small.
β€’ The dominant path for DU exposure was inhalation of DU particulate. Embedded DU fragments made significant contributions to the DU concentration in the bone and other organs; however, even with fragment effects included, the risk of cancer for these organs and the risk of leukemia were very small. Ingested DU did not have a significant effect on the radiological risk.
β€’ For veterans retaining embedded DU fragments, a review of the literature did not identify any veterans with soft-tissue sarcomas in the vicinity of fragments.
Nonetheless, animal tests suggest that fragment-induced local sarcomas cannot be ruled out as a possibility.
β€’ The risks of DU-induced cancers for veterans and DU-induced birth defects for their children are sufficiently small that any effect from DU exposure would be impossible to distinguish from background incidences of cancers and birth defects. Furthermore, veteran health statistics do not support claims of significant increases in cancers or birth defects among Gulf War veterans.
β€’ For most DU-exposed veterans, the DU concentration in the kidney was too small to
result in kidney-related health effects. However, a few Level I veterans may have
117
inhaled sufficient quantities of DU particulate to experience transient kidney damage.
Long-term kidney health effects are not expected for any DU-exposed veterans.
β€’ Currently, neurotoxic effects from DU exposure cannot be ruled out. Nonetheless,
veteran test results to date suggest that major neurotoxic effects are unlikely. Other
possible toxicity effects from DU internalization have been suggested; however,
evidence for other chemically induced DU effects is not well established.
β€’ Continued medical examination of DU-exposed veterans and tracking of veteran
records is recommended to assure that no unexpected long-term health effects
develop as a result of DU exposure. Some issues, such as the possibility of soft tissue
sarcomas in the vicinity of DU fragments and possible neurotoxic effects, may
require long-term monitoring.
β€’ Continued basic research (e.g., animal testing) is recommended to determine the
significance of possible linkages between DU exposure and chemically induced
health effects such as neurotoxic effects.
β€’ Reasonable precautions are suggested to reduce the possibility of health effects from
DU exposure as a result of friendly fire, such as assuring that the ventilation system is
operating following shell impact or rapidly exiting the vehicle.
β€’ Timely post-battle screening and treatment, as required, are strongly recommended to
provide accurate records for all Level I veterans.

7.4 DU-Exposed Iraqi Civilians
β€’ The radiological risk is extremely small for civilians located downwind from DU
munitions use. Thus, DU is predicted to have no detectable health effects (including
cancers, leukemia, and birth defects) on downwind civilians.
β€’ Monitoring of DU in the environment suggests that DU contamination of food and
water supplies has not been significant to date. Furthermore, widespread DU
contamination in the distant future is unlikely.
β€’ The most significant risk for Iraqi civilians may be for children playing in or near
DU-damaged vehicles. The nominal risk of lung cancer for these children is about
118
0.04%, and the nominal risk of colon cancer is 0.06%. The risk of leukemia and other
cancers is insignificant.
β€’ The beta particle emission rate for DU is too low to present a risk of skin burns from
direct contact with DU metal. However, a DU fragment in close contact with the skin
at the same location for many years (e.g., worn as jewelry) could result in a local skin
cancer risk from beta irradiation.
β€’ Gamma radiation from nearby unburied shells, fragments, or particulate is too weak to present a significant radiological risk.
β€’ No adverse kidney effects are predicted for Iraqi civilians exposed to DU.
β€’ To reduce civilian risks to negligible levels, children should be discouraged from playing in or near battle-damaged vehicles.
β€’ To assure that long-term contamination of the environment has not resulted from DU munitions use, continued monitoring of the post-battle zone environment and nearby civilians is suggested.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120204035816/http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2005/def-nonprolif-sec/snl-dusand.pdf

Surplus2requirements · 17/05/2023 07:06

Omg some people's lack of critical thinking skills are truly frightening.

There's probably a YT video that explains why that's the fault of our lizard overlords

Positivethought · 17/05/2023 07:28

@MissConductUS a spot on and, in keeping with this thread, a factually supported response. I think you must have served in the diplomatic corps. Thank you!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/05/2023 07:39

Thank you for that, MissConductUS. Great response.

notimagain · 17/05/2023 08:00

@RollerCoaster2020

There are excellent replies above...if I recall it correctly the subject has been discussed, here and certainly elsewhere,

To add to the above some more science:

https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/opinions_layman/depleted-uranium/en/index.htm

The British have recently given and are training the Ukrainians in the use of depleted uranium shells for the tanks.

For balance it's worth being aware Russia uses DU in ammunition....though they of course deny using such in the current conflict:

https://www.icbuw.eu/depleted-uranium-du-and-russian-ammunition/

And finally I'd always very wary of any article/video that uses images of nuclear mushroom clouds up front and centre as an attention grabber the context of the subject of Depleted Uranium, for obvious reasons(?)

Depleted Uranium

https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/opinions_layman/depleted-uranium/en/index.htm

notimagain · 17/05/2023 08:13

Darn fingers..that last bit should have been " as an attention grabber in the context of the subject of Depleted Uranium..."

Swipe left for the next trending thread