The invasion continues - Thread No.4

[ChimChimeny]

Following the previous (2? 3?) Threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4492641-The-Invasion-Has-Stalled

This article summarizes the long history of the Russian/Soviet nations its aims and Putin's motivations and plans.

www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

Tbh I see very well educated people on this thread.. and a few Putin sympathisers too.

@Thereisnolight

While it’s great that people donate money to charities, what has been different this time is the massive donation of ITEMS - clothes, hygiene products, baby products - that are being gathered by Eastern Europeans and driven in their own trucks and vans directly to where they are needed. Minimal waste of money, maximum efficacy. It’s been amazing to see.

That's only efficient if the people driving those supplies to where there are refugees are relatively nearby though. From the UK I would think it makes more sense to send money to charities working on the ground.

Hope you feel better quickly @HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend

@ClaudineClare

and also defended by the worlds longest desk

That made me snigger.

In fact in made me guffaw!!

There needs to some memes of him and his defensive table!!

[quote ClaudineClare]@Alondra I think you have given another perspective on this and I have read your posts with interest.

Putin has no right to invade Ukraine, but the facts behind it don't seem to be as black and white as some may wish. I am still learning, though.[/quote]
I'm lucky that as a Spaniard I have access to semi indepent news. They are not completely independent but certainly not controlled by the Murdoch press like in the UK or Australia.

I learned by experience that in politics there are never black and white issues specially when in a war, there is a whole lot of circumstances, mostly with political control of resources, that lead to armed conflict.

I was semi watching the movie Kingdom of Heaven again while keeping an eye on this thread....it's awful how 1500 years later we are still doing the same war games.

I don't myself see any Putin sympathisers. I do see people saying that the US is not as squeaky clean as it would like to pretend.

@MarshaBradyo

MrHuff maybe you’ll answer then, is Putin justified in his actions?

It doesn't matter what I think, it's what Putin thinks.

He's obviously deliberately provoking war with the West shattering the peace. So no I'd like to continue with peace and pursue diplomatic solutions. Although it's clear Putin is testing the West.

Don't shoot the messenger.
We're at war, he's planned it.

@Peregrina

I don't myself see any Putin sympathisers. I do see people saying that the US is not as squeaky clean as it would like to pretend.

It may well not be. Whether that means Putin is justified is another question

I don’t think he is at all. But the question seems to be avoided. What do you think?

Some nice helpful lines in this from someone struggling to explain the deaths of children in Ukraine to their own children.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/education/ukraine-invasion-what-should-parents-say-to-children-about-the-war-russia-is-inflicting-on-ukraine-3591063

themedialine.org/top-stories/chechens-are-fighting-on-both-sides-of-russian-ukrainian-conflict/

Whilst Putin has a big ally in charge in Chechnya at the moment, could Chechnya become a problem again for Russia if Russia is too focussed on Ukraine?

In fact in made me guffaw!!
There needs to some memes of him and his defensive table!!

Here you are @fatfucker - enjoy😂

It doesn't matter what I think, it's what Putin thinks.

Ok people seem quite upfront re what they think about the West but coy on this one…

Far from being informative and helpful I would call this entire thread just the usual MN bitch fest. It reeks of thought-policing, virtue signalling and moral superiority.

I would honestly suggest to anyone seeking a decent cross section of info and opinion to visit other sites. Metafilter, (a US site) is a great, knowledgable resource, although a bit hive-mindey, a lot of great minds on there!

@Peregrina

I don't myself see any Putin sympathisers. I do see people saying that the US is not as squeaky clean as it would like to pretend.

And saying that unless peace talks try to understand all perspectives not just one side, they’ll go nowhere.

@notimagain I have no military experience, but it just feels 'off' to me. Everyone know's its there, I mean you couldn't bloody miss it and yet nobody appears to have gone anywhere near it. Are logistics tails usually off bounds during conflicts ?

Interesting thread on the successful use of propaganda by Ukraine: twitter.com/peterwsinger/status/1498355174649311232?s=20&t=_zxv6SqVXw05P4lYRz-QWQ

@workisnotawolf

themedialine.org/top-stories/chechens-are-fighting-on-both-sides-of-russian-ukrainian-conflict/

Whilst Putin has a big ally in charge in Chechnya at the moment, could Chechnya become a problem again for Russia if Russia is too focussed on Ukraine?

That's a good question I doubt many of us can answer. It will depend on agreements between Putin and the Chechnya government..but it can change as the Chechnians blink. They are not precisely known for keeping agreements and they are a very small population.

www.independent.co.uk/tech/youtube-rt-russia-today-sputnik-ukraine-b2025512.html
Sorry if this has been raised already but why are we being cut off. I want to see both sides and the propaganda there.

@ConfusedParticle

Far from being informative and helpful I would call this entire thread just the usual MN bitch fest. It reeks of thought-policing, virtue signalling and moral superiority.

I would honestly suggest to anyone seeking a decent cross section of info and opinion to visit other sites. Metafilter, (a US site) is a great, knowledgable resource, although a bit hive-mindey, a lot of great minds on there!

Just took a look and the 50 or so posts I read are very similar to here.

"yoolia
The reluctance to use planes is the one thats bothering me most atm.

Why?
Cos not going for air cover for your ground troops which are getting minced is not a particularly good strategic move.

It either means something is wrong or Russia has a problem.

Until we know its the latter for sure, I will continue to feel uneasy and be worried about when and how they might be engaged."

I too feel uneasy about the lack of Russian air supremacy, especially with that long convoy. Just doesn't feel right.

A pp mentioned that Putin may be "goading" NATO and I could almost believe it.

Why have some military aircraft got their detectors on and some not?

I don't think that Putin is justified, but I do think that the West has helped enable him by turning a blind eye to what he was up to. Not least Johnson's Government - quite happy to take Russian oligarch's money with few questions asked.

Now of course, we have a wonderful Churchill moment for Johnson as he runs off to Poland.

Why have some military aircraft got their detectors on and some not?

@FatFucker depends on what they are doing - sometimes you want to be seen and sometimes you don't

@ConfusedParticle

Far from being informative and helpful I would call this entire thread just the usual MN bitch fest. It reeks of thought-policing, virtue signalling and moral superiority.

I would honestly suggest to anyone seeking a decent cross section of info and opinion to visit other sites. Metafilter, (a US site) is a great, knowledgable resource, although a bit hive-mindey, a lot of great minds on there!

Appreciating the insults 🙄 enjoy the other site.

Johnson getting a roasting in Warsaw.