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The Invasion Has Stalled

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 27/02/2022 18:07

So here we go. Four days in and the third consecutive thread on the conflict in Ukraine. The last two threads are a credit to the members of mumsnet. Who knows where thread four may find our world?

Thank you all.

Thread two : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4491025-The-Invasion-Continues

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
FatCatThinCat · 28/02/2022 13:53

We also don't know what Liz Truss is saying to them in private. We do know she threw the Russian ambassador out of their last meeting but not what was said.

timetochangeusername · 28/02/2022 13:54

It's Truss encouraging brits to go and fight that is the problem. It's accepted that if Russian takes a step into NATO territory it will be a full muilti nation war - that's always been the case

Alexandra2001 · 28/02/2022 13:55

I think Ben Wallace said last week that putin had gone full on tonto

The Russians seem to have taken this with a pinch of salt, their spokeswoman basically said "with your PM on a zip wire i wouldn't talk about mad leaders"

But Truss is a woman and the Russians have form with belittling women leaders, Merkel, VDL... so you don't go around encouraging him.

Keepyourheadscrewedon · 28/02/2022 13:56

The incident of Vladimir Putin, Angela Merkel, and the dog is a famous one. It was 2007 and Merkel, Germany's Chancellor, was visiting Putin at his presidential residence in Sochi to discuss energy trade. Putin, surely aware of Merkel's well-known fear of dogs, waited until the press gathered in the room, then called for his black Labrador to be sent in. The Russian president watched in unconcealed glee as the dog sniffed at Merkel, who sat frozen in fear.

Later, in discussing the incident with a group of reporters, Merkel attempted an explanation of Putin's behavior. Her quote, reported in George Packer's December 2014 profile of Merkel in the New Yorker, is one of the most pithily succinct insights into Putin and the psychology of his 14-year reign that I have read:

"I understand why he has to do this — to prove he's a man," Merkel said. "He's afraid of his own weakness. Russia has nothing, no successful politics or economy. All they have is this."

We have seen this all before.....

workisnotawolf · 28/02/2022 13:56

Does anyone know how long Russia might keep its stock exchange closed for? Is it potentially indefinite and entirely within their power?

vera99 · 28/02/2022 13:58

Great thread here of how far behind the loop we are in sanctioning Russia and the reasons why.

twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1498270373565157378

MarshaBradyo · 28/02/2022 13:58

But Truss is a woman and the Russians have form with belittling women leaders, Merkel, VDL... so you don't go around encouraging him.

If this is the case then she should go ahead and say what others have. She doesn’t need to modify to suit his views

Plus this in pp ——

Trust just repeated what military sources said many times earlier.

From 24th February 2022
Speaking to the BBC this morning, Sir Richard Sheriff, former deputy supreme commander of NATO told the BBC: "Absolutely there is a possibility that we as a nation could be at war with Russia, because if Russia puts one bootstep across Nato territory, we are all at war with Russia. Every single one, every single member of the Nato alliance."
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/how-russias-invasion-ukraine-could-23203257

TheSillyMastiff · 28/02/2022 13:58

Her tone is fine, she just needs to dance around the words "conflict with NATO" this is a red rag to a raging bull.

"Met with a unified response"
"Further allied sanctions"
"Consensus of repercussions from a united Europe and western allies"

Say what you mean without saying it.

Hence why Putin said "consequences to the west that have never been seen before" he didn't say "I'll arm my nuclear arsenal" but we all knew what he ment.

Diplomacy is a dancing of words, a threat without a threat.

I don't think you'll be seeing Lizz on BBC breakfast any time soon.

Keepyourheadscrewedon · 28/02/2022 13:59

so you don't go around encouraging him

So Truss being a woman, she is by default 'encouraging' him? This has got to be a joke.

Why don't we just strip out all women in government to match Russia so they don't 'encourage' Putin to lash out and bully them?

I am seriously wondering how this situation could get any worse if this is the world view of pp.

Classica · 28/02/2022 13:59

It's an admission that their stocks are near worthless. Can they keep it closed indefinitely?

fromdownwest · 28/02/2022 14:00

Late to this thread, and its very scary stuff.

Do people think that with the run on the wealthy Russians assets, SWIFT removal, and further pending financial constraints on their ecnomy, a coup may arise? From what I can see, the average Russian does not seem particulalry enganged in Putins goals?

Will this be the easiest route out, or do we really expect a multi nation war?

supermoonrising · 28/02/2022 14:01

@Wannago
Actually the 7,000+ children deaths in two plus months in Iraq due explicitly to US military is as far from propaganda as it comes. The figure comes from the Iraq Body Count - an objective organisation which meticulously counted deaths due to the invasion. Something the US and it’s allies had precisely zero interest in doing, and media organisations did not have the resource/ inclination/time.

Again, the 7,000+ figure is not deaths due to the chaos, civil war etc etc. The 7,000+ figure is explicitly military actions, bombs and collateral damage from the US and it’s allies. Please don’t accuse others of propaganda when you are literally attempting to rewrite history.

LaDoIceVita · 28/02/2022 14:03

@MarshaBradyo

I’m with Dreaming we can’t be that soft and dance around the reality of the situation.

He doesn’t get all the aggression and no clear lines.

Anyway we won’t agree, people want softer tones I’m fine with her tone.

I'm with you on this. Truss stated facts. Yes, her she could have worded those facts in a different way and as people have said, she's going to get in the neck. But personally, I'm not going with the line of thought that means every sovereign nation and now every individual has to consider whether their every act, spoken word or even thought, will upset Putin. I don't want to live in a world like that - I'd rather go out in a nuclear strike. Tact and diplomacy can sometimes bring about successful resolutions, appeasement and giving in to bullies never does.
Alexandra2001 · 28/02/2022 14:06

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

so you don't go around encouraging him

So Truss being a woman, she is by default 'encouraging' him? This has got to be a joke.

Why don't we just strip out all women in government to match Russia so they don't 'encourage' Putin to lash out and bully them?

I am seriously wondering how this situation could get any worse if this is the world view of pp.

No thats not what i said at all..... but you don't go giving your enemy free excuses, regardless of your sex.

As you have said had many times, the way out of all this is diplomacy and a peace settlement.

Truss bought in Moldova, a non NATO country into all this - she is upping the ante or doesn't she know they aren't in NATO.

Keepyourheadscrewedon · 28/02/2022 14:07

Well done to the Kremlin!!!! It is 1-0 to them.

We are all talking about Truss now, rather than babies and small children dying in Ukraine. The latest in Ukraine.

Someone warned us about the misinformation war and gas lighting that would ensue, and they were really on the money.

Anyway for anyone that is actually interested in the carnage happening in Ukraine here is an update:

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/28/russia-ukraine-latest-news-war-putin-zelensky-weapons-updates/

Alexandra2001 · 28/02/2022 14:09

I don't want to live in a world like that - I'd rather go out in a nuclear strike. Tact and diplomacy can sometimes bring about successful resolutions, appeasement and giving in to bullies never does

You might want too but i don't and neither do 8 billion others.

Wannago · 28/02/2022 14:11

@herecomesthsun

well, she is an idiot - but someone made her Foreign secretary...
Sorry, but I naively thought that you only put your nuclear forces on high alert, if you were threatened by other nuclear forces on high alert.

That to me means that Putin thinks that Liz Truss has the power to order a nuclear attack and she might do that imminently. You don't need to put forces on high alert unless an attack is imminent - As we have seen, it doesn't take very long to put nuclear forces on high alert. A - there might end up being a war with NATO, who might threaten to use nuclear weapons. seems a bizarre reason to put nuclear weapons on high alert now, and especially from someone who doesn't have the power to actually do either, and is, let's face it, is from a country that is a very junior member of NATO.

Alexandra2001 · 28/02/2022 14:11

Peace talks have ended between Russia and Ukraine.

MarshaBradyo · 28/02/2022 14:12

but you don't go giving your enemy free excuses

Don’t follow his game. Think about the sheer amount of backlash he is getting and the amount of times he has heard what she has said.

Yet for some reason hearing one more time is tipping him over the edge…

He needs to deal with it. We’re you ok with this?

From 24th February 2022
Speaking to the BBC this morning, Sir Richard Sheriff, former deputy supreme commander of NATO told the BBC: "Absolutely there is a possibility that we as a nation could be at war with Russia, because if Russia puts one bootstep across Nato territory, we are all at war with Russia. Every single one, every single member of the Nato alliance."
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/how-russias-invasion-ukraine-could-23203257

Or should he have minced his words so ‘he said it without saying it’..

Alexandra2001 · 28/02/2022 14:13

@Wannago Russia changed their laws on nuclear use a few years ago, basically they can use them if facing a overwhelming conventional force.
This is why words very much matter.

Keepyourheadscrewedon · 28/02/2022 14:16

Where did you see that alex?

Igotjelly · 28/02/2022 14:17

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

Where did you see that alex?
Breaking on Sky News now
Alexandra2001 · 28/02/2022 14:18

Marsha everyone from Stoltenberg to Biden have said similar, in equally as strong terms, of course i'm with that, aren't we all.

But no one else has also said is we want nato citizens fighting in Ukraine nor said invading a non nato country will bring about a nato v russian war.
did you notice the yanks (or Wallace) haven't turned around and said "our nukes are going on standby too"

Its called diplomacy.

TheSillyMastiff · 28/02/2022 14:19

Moving on from Truss.

Russia have just banned 36 airlines landing. Are we about to see countries telling their nationals to leave Russia. France did so late last night didn't it.

I think it's more concern they will get stranded, more than conflict breaking out.

No verified reports of a run on the Russian banking system yet. But Russian companies have been warned against selling off shares.

CallyfromBlakes7 · 28/02/2022 14:19

I don't know why everyone is going on about Liz Truss.

Vladimir Putin put Russia's nuclear forces on high alert after comments by UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss and others, the Kremlin has said

and others

I've taken that from a UK source, so they've obviously mentioned Liz Truss. No doubt the German media would refer to Baerbeck etc.

As if a sexist madman like Putin gives a fig about Liz Truss especially.