The Invasion Has Stalled

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So here we go. Four days in and the third consecutive thread on the conflict in Ukraine. The last two threads are a credit to the members of mumsnet. Who knows where thread four may find our world?

Thank you all.

Thread two : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4491025-The-Invasion-Continues

The bigger picture is that we have a psychopath that has lost the plot in charge of Russia marauding over Europe, and murdering an innocent nation and trying to erase them, the conflict between Ukraine and Russia spans decades and has existed since collapse of the soviet union and has nothing to do with a vote thousands of miles away taken seven years ago. Please stop derailing the thread weare I won't be responding to you again.

So are we not allowed to discuss how and why we have reached this point with a European country being invaded by Russia?
It's very relevant and Brexit is only a very small part of it (see my link above)
The Great Information War.

and has nothing to do with a vote thousands of miles away taken seven years ago

Really?

The vote thousands of miles away taken seven years ago was part of a de-stabilisation effort on the part of Putin and Russia. I don't want to get into Brexit but let's not pretend it has nothing to do with where we are now with Russia

Does anyone have any thoughts about the offer the Kremlin are likely to make?

I am going with carving up Ukraine. East goes to Russia - West to Ukraine and an agreement regarding Nato, nuclear and neutrality.

I think they will push Ukraine to surrender and have a new pro Russia government installed. That in itself would prevent Ukraine joining nato or the eu as the new goveenment wouldnt even consider it

Does anyone have any thoughts about the offer the Kremlin are likely to make?

They'll want crimea and the Donbas, and a promise that Ukraine won't join NATO (which they won't get).

Or they'll want Zelenskyy and his government to step aside (which they also won't get).

@Roussette

So are we not allowed to discuss how and why we have reached this point with a European country being invaded by Russia? It's very relevant and Brexit is only a very small part of it (see my link above) The Great Information War.

Maybe a seperate thread for it? I don't think anyone is saying don't discuss how things got to this point, just asking for it to be kept out of this thread. This thread can move very quickly with updated information and many people are using it to dip into for a quick update. It's not unreasonable to ask that other discussions be kept out of it and it isn't a good look when posters get narky about polite requests to keep a discussion on topic.

Russian families shocked at seeing relative soldiers captive, when they had no clue they were even going to Ukraine, let alone war.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/27/ukrainian-officials-upload-videos-of-captured-russian-soldiers-on-telegram

Yes maybe they will start with a full surrender request as a starting point, and have a landing point of annexation perhaps? Ukraine do not need to surrender, they are in a position if not of strength in terms of military might, but certainly in terms of willingness to continue this fight indefinitely for their country. Russia may not have the same appetite in the longer term, and could not afford to continue indefinitely.

How linked the conservties are tied to Russian money I think is very important part of discussions and as someone linked above Russian money , Cambridge analytica , Conservative government it is an economic war as well as physical one, also information war as
Carole cadwalla explains twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1498056686548013062?s=20&t=ftVEsLk2FEDWNkE7DKWzDQ

LaDolceVita I get what you're saying and I too want this thread to be about current developments.
It just rankles a bit when someone says Brexit has nothing to do with what's going on now, when it so obviously has been part of Putin's imperalistic plans to weaken the EU..
Anyway I'll stop there..

Back to current

I don't hold out much hope for the peace talks unless Putin is willing to withdraw his troops immediately and without condition.

Zelenskyy is not going to accept anything less.

And nor should he yoolia the world has only just got going with their response, and Ukraine feel greatly buoyed by the surge in support around them now.

I’d would be great to just focus on the current situation but I understand if I’m in the minority to feel that way.

But having an incompetent Government is part of the current situation. A Foreign Secretary who is more interested in posing for selfies. A Home Secretary who lacks an ounce of compassion, and one of her junior ministers opining that those fleeing Ukraine could apply for crop picking visas. A PM who likes to be Mr Big Bollocks, but is doing exactly what? A discussion in Parliament in a week's time!

@Peregrina

I’d would be great to just focus on the current situation but I understand if I’m in the minority to feel that way.

But having an incompetent Government is part of the current situation. A Foreign Secretary who is more interested in posing for selfies. A Home Secretary who lacks an ounce of compassion, and one of her junior ministers opining that those fleeing Ukraine could apply for crop picking visas. A PM who likes to be Mr Big Bollocks, but is doing exactly what? A discussion in Parliament in a week's time!

I would say the why is more important and I think obviously just my opinion is all about how Conservative government is funded

Maybe a seperate thread for it? I don't think anyone is saying don't discuss how things got to this point, just asking for it to be kept out of this thread. This thread can move very quickly with updated information and many people are using it to dip into for a quick update. It's not unreasonable to ask that other discussions be kept out of it and it isn't a good look when posters get narky about polite requests to keep a discussion on topic.

Yes to this

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/volodymyr-zelensky-russian-mercenaries-ordered-to-kill-ukraine-president-cvcksh79d

The mercenaries have been told that Putin wants a brief pause to show that he is negotiating with Zelensky, but assured them that no deal would be reached and that the effort would be simply “smoke and mirrors”, according to a source close to senior members of the Wagner Group.

Oh absolutely anything less than full, immediate and unconditional withdrawal should not be accepted. Fuck Putin.

@Roussette Thank you

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic but I think Putin is going to set unrealistic demands just for a ceasefire - essentially complete capitulation by Ukraine. I think 'peace talks' are going to involve huge demands for NATO/the rest of the world to meet.

I can't help having a mental picture of the talks breaking down, the Ukrainian delegation rising to their feet and all saying 'Russia - go fuck yourself'.

Since yesterday evening my local FB groups are now sharing news of lorries going to Poland and asking for donations to be dropped off at specific addresses. On Saturday the discussions were more along the lines of "how can we find a way of getting aid to Poland?".
Can you imagine this a week ago?

Wait I’ve just seen that yes you do have kids!!

You don’t mention them ONCE until your last post, after having posted a dozen beforehand, almost as an after thought

This thread is clearly going to attract people with an interest in history and politics, people who haven’t taken much interest in international relations before, but who have become gripped by current events, and some people operating on possibly a paid basis by interest groups.
I do understand that it can be very hard to hear that stuff which seemed ok is connected to something that isn’t, like if a much loved friend suddenly goes to prison for fraud.
However, it is the case that there have been longstanding and credible concerns that world security was threatened by Russian disinformation campaigns which affected the 2016 US Presidential Election and the Brexit Referendum. In addition there have been longstanding concerns that the Conservative Party and Mr Johnson in particular have got too close to individual and powerful Russians with clear links to Putin.
This isn’t history, these are still current, and of course they are a concern, and of course it is relevant to this thread. I’m not anti U.K., and I won’t have my legitimate worries about whether this will affect our response, dismissed as some sort of unpatriotic smear.

Ukraine would keep going, the talks I hope will not impede their momentum.

Can't keep up on it all.
Has a run on the banks started yet? ( don't know the time difference)