Or is this victim blaming?

My DD and DH don't drink at all. I am puzzled why women drink and put themselves at risk from men.

See how that sounds?

Well aren’t we glad you’re here to keep us right on how to recognise the correct type of rape victim.

But can you not see your post is attributing blame to the victim. According to you, the choices the woman makes, puts her in danger or protects her.

But nothing is without nuance...

So if a woman agrees to have sex with a man but he anally rapes her without her consent - how could she protect herself? She couldnt.

These posts are so dangerous. Rape is the only crime the victim is asked what did she do to provoke the perpetrator.

By all means woman should take precautions, but the real discussion should be how men behave.

Life is full of risks. But surely everyone, male and female, weighs them up before acting..
I am old, and I still do that, it doesn't stop me living my life, and I have learned as I have gone along, but only a fool would argue that our behaviour can put us in risky situations sometimes.

Saying all of those things to your daughters is fine.

Saying that women who go to places alone where men might be, and/or heaven forbid get drunk where men might be, are essentially asking for it... What do they expect?... This is risky behaviour.... They could have protected themselves simply by NOT being there, yet they chose not to... All that is unfeminist victim blaming.

And misandrist, actually. Because most men can control themselves around a drunk woman. There is nothing inevitable about a situation with a drunk woman, or an alone woman, in male company.

It's when the man is a predator, that the consequence becomes inevitable. Because of his behaviour, not hers.

I don't think any girl or women needs to be told over and over what to do to 'keep themselves safe'

You think it's just innate? They just know? Do you take this approach with other aspects of safety too? Don't tell your kids to wear a helmet and not cycle in the dark? I'm sure they just know how to keep themselves safe and after all, anyone should be allowed to do whatever they like without harm.

People are so naive. And I can still remember my mum saying to always stick with my friends on a night out, don't let anyone get left behind. I'm glad she said it, it was good advice even if I rolled my eyes at the time.

The irony is that most mums are so so vigilant with their young kids, never letting them out of their sight and constantly warning about stranger-danger and looking out for risks. Because, guess what, there are predators and dangerous people out there and there always will be. But apparently we should ignore this fact when it comes to sexual assault and just tell the rapists not to rape.

Ok and what if your daughter does drink too much - as almost all young people do at some point? What then? What if her friends walk off and leave her? If she does get assaulted at that point, don't you think the first thing she'll do is think about how she's going to tell you that she was drunk/alone?

What do you tell your DD to do about the men she knows - her friends, her boyfriends? They are much much much more likely to assault her.

No amount of campaigning or education is going to reduce rape. Men know rape is wrong but it doesn’t stop them doing it

It baffles me that some people genuinely believe that this kind of male behaviour can be changed, as though it’s only happening because men don’t know the right way to behave?!

Men who rape have something intrinsically wrong/evil within their character and they rape for sinister reasons. Education and campaigns won’t change that.

But sadly, as it’s a male behaviour that will never change it means that it is on us to try and reduce the risk of it happening to us. It’s crap and it’s unfair but it’s the reality.

No amount of protesting about our rights and how we should be able to trust men to respect those rights is going to change anything.

No crime has ever simply vanished or stopped being committed, and nor will rape because there will always be evil men around who get some kind of pleasure/satisfaction/thrill from it.

All we can do is the best we can to keep ourselves safe but for many women that sadly still won’t be enough ☹️

Did you read the rest of the post?

You have said this several times now but we can't talk about stranger rapes without making sure that women are aware of the fact that the biggest risks regarding rape are almost always closer to home.

If we ignore the most common type of rape, we risk a false sense of security and women believing they have ultimate control to avoid rape which simply isn't true even if a woman doesn't walk alone at night, doesn't go back to a hotel with a stranger etc she is simply just lowering the risk of stranger rape which is already rare and vastly unlikely to happen.

Ok. When I suffered a sexual assault, I absolutely found it empowering to think of all the things I could have done to prevent it happening. Because then I can do those things to lessen the risk of it happening again. I absolutely never, ever felt I was to blame.

If someone had said to me, that wouldn't have happened if you hadn't been on a boat in a bikini, they would have been correct, albeit deeply insensitive and actually a massive asshole. But it would have been true. I know that. I still go on boats, less often in bikinis, but I never, ever get drunk where I can't get away like on a boat, and I also never go up a ladder first. I wasn't victim blaming myself imo.

However, if someone had said to me, it was your fault for getting drunk on a boat, it was your fault for not staying with your friends, thats actual victim blaming, isn't it? It's placing the fault.

No, it wasn't my fault. However, I could have done more to prevent it and obviously now do do more.

I do know its a thin line but I prefer to look at the actual real life facts- because we are living in the actual real life.

One way we get to control our lives to a much greater extent although of course not totally. The other way we don't talk about our own personal control of self.

Was I victim blaming myself or taking responsibility?

I agree with you OP. It would be wise to avoid obviously risky situations, but so often women don’t. I’m not sure why either. I guess in showbiz they think it could help their career to be in a celebs circle. Then they realise more is required.

This.

No, but you are saying it is somewhat a woman’s fault if she puts herself in an unsafe position, your example is a hotel room is apparently unsafe. So where is safe. What scenario is not putting yourself in an unsafe position?

If one avoids all risky behaviors then one will miss out on lots of fun too.

The difference is just down to different personalities, obviously.

One isn't right and one isn't wrong.

Hope that she'd learn from it!? She'd be broken by it!

I think most people would tell their daughters not to go to hotel rooms with men they don’t know well, or go to their houses alone. If my daughter was foolish enough to have a “business meeting” at a man’s house and he came out in a dressing gown she would know to leave sharpish.

Some women have no choice but to walk home in the dark. It's a perfectly normal thing to do. I and every woman I know does it.
I am not going to have my restrictions curtailed because there are a minority of criminal men out there.
But also women are more likely to get attacked by someone they know than by a stranger in the he night and men are more likely to get attacked at night in the dark than women

It's disingenuous to shift this to a broad conversation about risk assessment when we both know we are talking about male sexual violence, in this case specifically against women... not about looking both ways when we cross a road.

Risk assessment is fundamentally about knowing what the risks are before making a decision. Which implies that if only that silly woman was a little more canny she could have spotted that rapist from a mile off like the rest of us. Us safe, unraped, sensible people over here.

Well exactly. We all assess risk on our own terms. Which shows just how arbitrary your ‘line’ is. Thinking it is higher than others just makes you sound even more sanctimonious.

FYI, just because we disagree doesn’t mean we are queuing up to go to hotel rooms with strange men. It means we wholly and vehemently blame men when women are raped by them.

I am leaving the thread now as I think it is just being goady and judgmental. I guess the only positive is you having the self awareness to wonder if it’s wrong to be victim blaming in the first place.

Spoiler: it is.

this 100%

the only person responsible for rape is the RAPIST

The victim is the victim.

The rapist is the rapist.

See how easy it should be.