Two more articles in the Suday Times

[Igneococcus]

Bishops rebelling against trans baptisms:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bishops-and-priests-line-up-to-rebel-against-trans-baptisms-5pnnm0c0l?shareToken=e687d175af9b298950ea09b20f57dcb0

and Dominic West thinks the next Bond should be a trans soldier:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/give-trans-soldier-hannah-a-shot-at-bond-role-says-star-dmhmjkds2?shareToken=cb88b03b1a01da0d6d69c0d463766f75

“She’s a beautiful blonde girl who could be Bond,” West told The Sunday Times Magazine. “That’s actually a brilliant idea. They should have a transgender Bond because there are a lot of transgender people in the army.”

The bishops article is great, clear concise.

Funny the the bishop of Wake-field has spoken out.

It’s all gone very father Ted.

I'm chuckling at "a woman Bond would be a great role model for girls".

Bond is a heavy drinking, womanizing assassin. He's not a great role model for boys, why would anyone think he was a great role model for girls?!

As to the church article, I completely agree. The unconditional celebration of a transgender identity is a total misuse of a modified baptism ceremony. Frankly the behaviour of the church right now smacks of the over-compensating guilt of an organization that has lost it's way and is desperately trying to regain some credibility as a welcoming and safe organization. It won't help itself by I'll thought out bandwagon jumping like this.

Ian Paul is right, baptism is about faith, not 'identity'.

I know. Bond would shag that beautiful blond soldier, not be one.

I'm a firm (Catholic) atheist but even I can see how this is theologically dubious.

Bond won’t shag a beatiful soldier with a dick.

There was enough trouble convincing fans a blond bloke could play Bond.

I’m fine with a female Doctor Who because the character can change. I’m not fine with fucking about with other established fictional characters.

Sherlock Holmes should always be tall and skinny. I don’t care if short fat people can practice deductive logic, they’re not Sherlock Holmes. (I’m flexible on Watson; Lucy Liu is fab).

Poirot does not have a beard.

I should not have read the comments, I now keep looking at his halo hair.

No wonder a CoE Tory MP quoted the Pope.

It’s the definition of totalitarianism that it dictates every level of society.

Not just politics but science, art and religion.

Good on the bishops for defending their traditional nonsense from this trendy nonsense.

The church of England don’t even perform same-sex marriages, which frankly shocked me when I found out about it two years ago. It seems to me that the fact they’ve bowed to transactivism is another sign of just how powerful this lobby is. Glad to hear that the wider group of priests are rebelling and that they appear to be aware of the wider effect of late transitioning men on their families.

This thread has classic potential. Juxtaposing Bond with the C of E.

And what has that guy got on his head??

And while I agree with the ludicrousness of baptising a gender identity, I can't get away from the fact that it's just another faith. Just not the one the CofE trades in.

Good I suppose but LOL at Bishop saying church teaching needs to be based on objective biology. Seriously?

Well, yes, seriously. Christian beliefs are pretty firmly rooted in material reality. It's not all about spooky woo unrelated to the physical.

@Igneococcus Might you please consider asking MN to edit the title so that the subject of the articles is included?
Thing seem to be moving really quickly at the moment and it would make it easier for people to find the threads.
MN have been happy to do this in the past in similar circumstances.

If you wish to change, just report your OP and ask there.

The article about Hannah Graf was chosen for discussion on R4 Broadcasting House this morning.

The focus of discussion was that Hannah Graf like other women in newspaper stories were given less space in the article than men:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3458545-R4-Broadcasting-House-discussion-about-sexist-portrayal-of-women-in-papers-with-reference-to-Hannah-Graf-possible-first-trans-woman-James-Bond

Hannah Graf and partner Jake are both patrons of Mermaids Charity.
Hannah Graf was one of the guests last week on the same program.

The Bishops who sanctioned the use of Baptism to validate these people's loony beliefs must be mad themselves. How can they abuse Baptism this way? What is WRONG with people? Why can't they see?😡 Bishops ffs.

THe Bond article is bizarre.

Dominic West's rationale that Graf should be considered for this prestigious acting role:

“She’s a beautiful blonde girl who could be Bond,” West told The Sunday Times Magazine. “That’s actually a brilliant idea. They should have a transgender Bond because there are a lot of transgender people in the army.”

Doesn’t a ‘born in the wrong body’ narrative imply that God makes mistakes?

I think this is key for the issue of baptism, from the article:

He said it was a “misuse” of the baptism service to switch from “affirmation of faith to affirmation of gender identity”.

Baptism is done once, to welcome a child/person into the faith. It isn’t about affirming any individual details of that person or actually, a self-important individual act all about who you think you are.

And frankly, if you believe in an omnipotent and omnipresent being who created the world, he/she/they can probably work out who you are when you have changed your name and supposedly your gender.

From the OP article, 'Bishops and priests line up to rebel against trans baptisms'

[the Revd Ian Paul] said the church needed to think through the implications of its decision. “What would it say for the church to ‘celebrate’ gender-identity change to the spouse who feels betrayed, to the children who feel abandoned, to the parent who feels bereaved — and even to those who have undergone transition and now regret the decision?”

He said it was a “misuse” of the baptism service to switch from “affirmation of faith to affirmation of gender identity”.

recent threads:
www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/11/church-of-england-to-issue-transgender-advice-for-clergy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2560153-To-not-understand-the-logic-for-transgender-baptism

Doesn’t a ‘born in the wrong body’ narrative imply that God makes mistakes?

They must believe in the wrong body narrative, because otherwise they are telling lies and there is plenty in the bible on that subject.

recent thread discussing the CofE new guidance:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3448596-Church-of-England-transgender-blessings

What on earth has Dominic West been smoking? Apart from anything else, why would you cast a non-actor in the lead role in one of the world's most famous film franchises? Was it his idea of a joke?

I've never seen an article with Dominic west where he hasn't been completely sarcastic

Perhaps he got the memo that only transgender people were allowed to play transgender roles (because of course that’s logical ) and he got confused and thought only soldiers could play people who did fighty things too.

Glad to see at least someone in the CofE is considering the impact of transition on those left behind. About time too.

Sounds like a slightly throwaway comment from West. Possibly a slightly pissed one 😄 He sounds a bit like he’s perving over Hannah a ‘beautiful blonde girl’ - objectified much?!

shetheyhim I had similar thoughts.
West's comment seems of the 'my mate's partner is gorgeous / hot and they've also got a really tough job in the army that I think is normally done by blokes etc so thats really cool eh?'
Not so profound or original.