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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

R4 Broadcasting House, discussion about 'sexist' portrayal of women in papers with reference to Hannah Graf, possible first (trans) woman James Bond

68 replies

R0wantrees · 23/12/2018 09:55

Listen from 9:42
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

Hannah Graf was on the program last week.

Interesting that the Sunday Times articles critical of Mermaids and Stonewall etc don't seem to have been discussed

Hannah Graf and her husband, Jake are patrons of Mermaids.

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R0wantrees · 23/12/2018 10:10

discussion about Sunday Times article:
OP
'Dominic West thinks the next Bond should be a trans soldier:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/give-trans-soldier-hannah-a-shot-at-bond-role-says-star-dmhmjkds2?shareToken=cb88b03b1a01da0d6d69c0d463766f75

“She’s a beautiful blonde girl who could be Bond,” West told The Sunday Times Magazine. “That’s actually a brilliant idea. They should have a transgender Bond because there are a lot of transgender people in the army.”

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3458445-Two-more-articles-in-the-Suday-Times

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Bowlofbabelfish · 23/12/2018 10:17

Role model? Bond is a womanising, hard drinking, morally dubious shit. I mean he’s great cinema, and a fantastic film and book character , but he’s not supposed to be a role model

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R0wantrees · 23/12/2018 10:17

from the article,
(extract)
"Jake, who starred in The Danish Girl alongside Eddie Redmayne, began dating Graf in 2015. They wed this year and have been described as “the most influential LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender] power couple”.*

Graf said that now Jodie Whittaker had taken on the lead role in Doctor Who, it was time for a woman Bond.

“We’ve seen too many men in hero-type roles and women playing second fiddle,” she said.

“I think it would be amazing to have a woman who is more than capable of being a hero in a story. A woman Bond would be a great role model for girls.” (continues)

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userschmoozer · 23/12/2018 10:20

Please tell me no one takes them seriously.

Katvonbatshit · 23/12/2018 10:21

Hannah is truly inspirational for women and girls.
We just need to be born male and we too could be the first "woman " to accomplish achievements like this.

I find that so very inspiring. Thanks Dominic.

(Other Dominic west news. DH saw him recently in a duty free shop. Dominic was kicking off about his purchase being sealed in a clear plastic bag. He clearly didn't understand that this is a security requirement and was behaving like a complete dick. )

userschmoozer · 23/12/2018 10:24

Is the best women can get? Not an innovative new role written for women?
This is a male fantasy being played out. I don't fantasize about being James Bond ffs.

AbsintheFriends · 23/12/2018 10:27

I don't even know where to start with this. Not without being deleted anyway.

Thanks for publicly revealing yourself to be an arse Dominic West. I was previously unaware, and it's useful to know.

hypnotizzz · 23/12/2018 10:31

In 2019 I will campaign for Charlotte's Angels, and a male Miss Marple to even things up a bit.

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R0wantrees · 23/12/2018 10:35

Role model? Bond is a womanising, hard drinking, morally dubious shit. I mean he’s great cinema, and a fantastic film and book character , but he’s not supposed to be a role model

Dominic West's reasoning that Hannah Graf should take on this prestigious acting role:

“She’s a beautiful blonde girl who could be Bond,” West told The Sunday Times Magazine. “That’s actually a brilliant idea. They should have a transgender Bond because there are a lot of transgender people in the army.”

West met Graf after he appeared alongside her actor husband, Jake, a transgender man, in his latest film Colette."

Biscuit
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hackmum · 23/12/2018 10:50

I heard the discussion this morning on BH. The papers' discussion is often pretty useless, but this was particularly stupid even by its usual standards (not just the bit about Dominic West, but the whole thing. You'd never guess that we were living through a time of national crisis.)

nauticant · 23/12/2018 11:17

It's now time for a woman to play James Bond so the right thing to do is to get a man to play a woman to play James Bond.

No wonder Chris Morris has largely retired from public life. Even he can't compete with this.

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R0wantrees · 23/12/2018 11:24

I heard the discussion this morning on BH. The papers' discussion is often pretty useless, but this was particularly stupid even by its usual standards

It was preceeded by a sympathetic interview with Toby Young lamenting on his awful luck and bad fortune having lost many of his positions on charities & opportunities since his sexist comments on social media were revealed.

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BubonicBudgie · 23/12/2018 11:31

What a pile of crap.
Hiddleston will never be Bond Grin

Ereshkigal · 23/12/2018 11:33

No wonder Chris Morris has largely retired from public life. Even he can't compete with this.

I really wish he hadn't! Come back Chris your country needs you!

HandsOffMyRights · 23/12/2018 11:34

Hannah is the poster person for Mermaids.
A charity that's currently under investigation by the Big Lottery Fund and under scrutiny by the Times and growing numbers of the public.

But R4 navigates around all that to talk about Bond's many male incarnations, past, present and future. Joy.

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NothingOnTellyAgain · 23/12/2018 11:41

Daniel Craig is a great Bond.
I've not read teh books but apaprently the spy was a ruthless, womanising, high functioning alcoholic, psychopath. That seems about right given what he does for a living.
This was naturally advertised as something admirable during the 60s 70s 80s but he says he plays it more like it was intended - you are not supposed to like him, or admire him, he is a total cold bastard assassin.

Anyway.

You couldn't have it with a woman. A woman who had sex with lots of men for her own ends, was hard drinking and coldly violent > would not be seen in the same way at all.
If they did it, her character would be completely changed and it woudl be used as a vehicle and I BET she'd somehow end up having sex with lots of women.
From this perspective it makes more sense to have a TW play it > who would be perceived consciosuly or subconsciosly as male so JB behaviour would be seen as more fitting.

Anyway
I think idris alba would have been good but is too old now, sorry idris.
Tom hiddlestone is a nope from me as well.

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R0wantrees · 23/12/2018 11:44

Dominic West, "They should have a transgender Bond because there are a lot of transgender people in the army.”

Isn't West being transphobic (sexist?) in proposing Hannah Graf rather than her husband Jake who is an actor?

James Bond is a male character and as trans men are men, West should surely be proposing Jake Graf not his wife who is not an actor or a man?

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NothingOnTellyAgain · 23/12/2018 11:49

Used as a vehicle just to show EVEN MORE sexy ladies being sexy.
I think that the rest of it would fade into the background.
Didn't finish that thought properly in my post.

So much of James Bond is super-rapey. The bit with severine in skyfall was revolting > he knew she had been prostitituted as a child and for years, and that he needed her to help him escape. Despite her traumatic past he decides to fuck her and she is in no position to say no. If she says no he might withdraw his help, he might react badly (there is no-one else around) and of course he's a violent man. I don't know if the people who made it even realised how that all looked from a female perspective. If it was intentional to tell that and have him fuck her anyway and to present it as admirable fun and romantic even than that is seriously fucked up.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 23/12/2018 11:50

"and that he needed her to help him escape"

I meant SHE needed HIM to help her escape

FFS Grin

BigotedWoman · 23/12/2018 11:55

Yes Nothing even Giles Coren picked up on the fuckedupness of that.

sevensatsumas · 23/12/2018 12:02

Aren't studios/directors allowed to just hire the best actor for a part any more - whoever that may be?

Knicknackpaddyflak · 23/12/2018 12:04

Trying to imagine Bond doing secret service work while still keeping up with duties on Twitter.

Maybe Q has a gadget to keep the Woke Yorkshire Police on speed dial and they go round to the evil criminal mastermind's house and give him a warning for misgendering.

AngryAttackKittens · 23/12/2018 12:05

OK, so to start with, Bond is not in the army...

And yes, is a reprehensible person in ways that would not be deemed acceptable or aspirational in a female Bond. Which is handy since that's not West was suggesting!

Plenty of talented British actresses he could have suggested, but I guess they lack that certain something (what could it be?), and women in films are just decorations so what does he care if his proposed LadyBond has any acting talent or experience?

And yes, Skyfall was vomit worthy.

VickyEadie · 23/12/2018 12:08

Today, in you couldn't make it up:

They should have a transgender Bond because there are a lot of transgender people in the army.” Are there "lots"?

Loving this comment by nauticant:

It's now time for a woman to play James Bond so the right thing to do is to get a man to play a woman to play James Bond.