Church of England transgender blessings

[howonearthdidwegethere]

You'll never guess what...

The policy announced today was drawn up by...three transwomen (who are priests), at least one of whom describes themselves as a trans lesbian.

The guidance was compiled in consultation with the Rev Dr Tina Beardsley, the Rev Sarah Jones and Canon Rachel Mann who said in a joint statement: “Collectively, we have sought to ensure that these new pastoral guidance notes provide a rich and generous space for trans people to locate their lives in the existing liturgy for the affirmation of baptismal faith."

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/church-offers-blessing-to-transgender-people-qfzznztx7

In the meantime, the CofE won't marry gay couples.

[QuietContraryMary]

Sensitive? Creative? Is this supposed to be the Church of England?

Not sure what the Biblical basis is supposed to be.

Or maybe that's where the creative part comes from.

[WorkingItOutAsIGo]

You see, I think that’s fine. Why shouldn’t trans people who are Christian be able to mark this in some way? All they have done is suggested ways to use existing liturgy to mark it - such as the baptism service.

We must be careful not to resent everything to do with trans activism. That would make us unreasonable.

I want trans people to be happy and if this does that then great, it doesn’t affect anyone else.

[Eviecee]

CofE churches do sometimes do blessings for gay couples, not sure if they are supposed to but I've been to a few

[userblablabla]

Lovely news! :)

[howonearthdidwegethere]

I also want trans people to be happy and accepted.

I just noted that the policy was written by three people who were born male. It just always seems the way.

As Jane Garvey asked on WH a fortnight ago: how is it that we never seem to hear from transmen?

[howonearthdidwegethere]

Ah, cross posted with SwearyG! That was indeed the point I was making.

[NotAnotherJaffaCake]

Is this the same church that has exemptions to stop women being bishops?

[LangCleg]

As a non-believer in either religion, I'm perfectly happy if the genderists and the Anglicans want to make friends and/or joint services.

[SwearyG]

Kinda Jaffa the laity voted against allowing women bishops in 2012 but a subsequent vote was won. We have women bishops now, but there are provisions for misogynist priests who won’t respect their authority to not have to work under them.

I don’t think the laity will accept the work that Mann, Beardsley and Jones are pushing through at Church House. Not for the reasons that feminist reject trans ideology. But because they don’t like anyone who isn’t a white man.

[akkakk]

Is this the same church that has exemptions to stop women being bishops?
There are female bishops in the CofE

This is simply a non-sacramental service (i.e. not baptism) - however, there is a theological issue in that while Synod agreed that transgender people should be welcomed into the Church (Biblically - all people should be welcomed, Christianity is non-judgemental of people) - that does not mean that the Church should be welcoming / condoning the actual transition - it is one of the biggest confusions in the Church today, that you should welcome and love the person even where you don't welcome / love the act... all to often these are confused and it is assumed that you must therefore welcome the act - not so, Christ in the New Testament is very clear about loving sinners, but not sin / prostitutes, but not prostitution / tax collectors, but not tax collecting / etc.

In putting out this message, it is suggesting that churches should condone transition which is not Biblical - the Bible is clear, mankind was created by God Male and Female - not random, fluid genders...

The reality is that I suspect the CofE will implode over the issue of sexuality - just look at GAFCON (founded 2008 in Jerusalem) to see the growing trend around the world to return to a Biblical understanding of God and His plans etc. - the current approach of the CofE is in considerable conflict with this Biblical approach, and it will be interesting to see where that ends up...

[Procrastinator1]

I'm not a member of the Church of England, but I do hope that it wall also support those who might be left behind after such a change, wives, children, family etc.

[Dragon3]

I find this deeply, deeply offensive. MTF transgenderism is appropriation. Appropriation of the struggles of women and lesbians, groups that have been denigrated throughout church history. And appropriation in a way which encroaches on the boundaries of present day female members of the church.

Would they allow reaffirmation of baptism for a white person who 'came out' as black? For an able person who came out as transabled?

the way that transitioned males are being heard at the top of the church when women have had to fight hard and are still only good for making the tea

Yes.

[HPD76]

I can’t speak for the others, but Rachel Mann was born female and is non binary. She’s also very lovely and inspiring.

[LavenderBush]

I agree with WorkingItOutAsIGo .

I'm a big fan of Tina Beardsley - a genuinely kind, reflective and intelligent person. I very much doubt she's going to have put her name to something that does anyone any harm.

[R0wantrees]

Jenny Murray Sunday Times article March 2017:

'Be trans, be proud — but don’t call yourself a “real woman”
Can someone who has lived as a man, with all the privilege that entails, really lay claim to womanhood? It takes more than a sex change and make-up'

(extract)
"The first time I felt anger when a man claimed to have become a woman was in December 2000, when the Rev Peter Stone announced he had undergone the radical surgery to transition from male to female and was now called Carol. Her primary concerns, she told me, were finding the most suitable dress in which to meet her parishioners in her new persona and deciding if she should wear make-up or not.

Her transition had taken place a mere six years after the Church of England ordained the first 32 women priests, at a time when the idea of a female bishop was still regarded as impossible and when parishes were allowed to refuse a female vicar if there were objections.

I remember asking Carol what she owed those women who had struggled for so long to have their calling to the priesthood acted upon. His calling, as a man, had never been questioned. I had nothing but a blank look and more concerns about clothing. “I know it sounds silly,” she said. “But I’ve nothing to wear.”

Too right it sounded silly. I thought of all those women who had spent years and years challenging what being female had meant as they sat in the pews on a Sunday morning: 2,000 years of institutionalised patriarchy; no woman but a virgin mother and a handful of tortured saints to look up to; women only good for refreshing the flowers, raising the kids and making tea for the vicar.

Even after women’s ordination had been allowed, the discrimination continued to rage. In 2000, the Rev Vivienne Faull became provost of Leicester Cathedral, the most senior woman in the Church of England at the time. She told me then that the church was awash with believers who thought a woman’s place was in the home or in a pew, wearing a hat. She had to contend with a canon who refused to celebrate services with her and would not receive holy communion from her hand.

I wondered when Carol would experience what so many newly ordained women had heard from fellow priests as they passed through the vestry. “Pulpit pussy”, they told me, was the favoured insult, and they found it demeaning, disgusting and it hurt.

It was news to Carol that life as a woman, especially a middle-aged woman, stepping into male territory in which she was unwelcome would be extremely tough. I prayed Carol would not find it so hard. Experience told me otherwise. It wasn’t going to be all about frocks and make-up. It was about sexual politics and feminism — ideas of which she seemed woefully unaware." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/be-trans-be-proud-but-dont-call-yourself-a-real-woman-frtld7q5c

[ErrolTheDragon]

For some reason discussions about the CofE often remind me of this:

"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

With the caveat that in the case of the CofE some of those things can be mutually exclusive.

In the grand scheme of things, this (along with other inconsistencies) probably adds to the sum of human happiness.

[vaginafetishist]

Rachel Mann was not born female!!!! What are you talking about?

[vaginafetishist]

According to Rachel Mann, Rachel Mann is a 'transwoman' and a lesbian.

[Potplant2]

Rachel Mann certainly wasn’t born female, you must be thinking of someone else. Rachel has written an autobiography (Dazzling Darkness) and a book about her family’s memories of the First World War, in both of which Rachel is clear about having been born and grown up male. Rachel transitioned as an adult and I think Rachel also identifies as lesbian.

Rachel is an accomplished poet and writer and is highly regarded in the Church (Rachel is an honorary Canon, which is a title only given to well-regarded priests).

I have met Rachel and found Rachel likeable and respectful. I think Rachel’s books show some, limited, understanding of the privilege Rachel has, especially in the church, from having grown up male.

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

The news report kept saying ‘gender’ this morning so I almost lost my voice yelling ‘Sex, sex ITS BLOODY SEX’.

I worked for the c of e when the whole women bishop thing was happening (it really was a hardcore tiny minority that opposed that). I’m glad I’m not there now - don’t think I could take the stress.

[vaginafetishist]

Rev Rachel Mann also gave the Southwark Cathedral Annual Feminist Lecture this year.. I would say their understanding of male privilege is zero.

[Dragon3]

Tina might well be a lovely person and otherwise good chaplain, but Tina Beardsley talks about being a 'woman with a transsexual history' and is appropriating womanhood. That does affect me. It hurts me and I resist it. Tina became a priest when only men could become priests.

It's as big a no from me here as it would be outside the church. No.

The celebratory tone is inappropriate and will certainly make it more difficult for wives and family members to seek support. A neutral response, accepting the person whilst neither condemning nor celebrating their transition would be more appropriate IMO.