FIL'S inappropriate actions

[Latty84]

My FIL normally lives abroad but due to visa issues he's been back for a few months. I have a 4 year old and a 3 month old. In the last few months FIL has visited and stayed over 2 weekends, the third being this weekend coming. Before he came back to the UK, I asked my partner not to invite him to stay as I would have not long given birth and would be uncomfortable with him in my house and my space. He stayed anyway.
During those stays I noticed a couple of times when he was playing with my 4 year old he would 'tickle' in places where an adult should not touch a child. It was over the clothes and only for a second but still made me very unhappy. He also stuck a finger down the back of my 4 year olds 'builders bum' (where his trousers had slipped a little bit) and wiggled, as if to tickle.
I told my partner immediately when this happened then had a conversation about the other times I had seen this behaviour. I told him I didn't want his dad staying again and he had to have a serious conversation with him before he was to see the kids again. The behaviour was sort of explained away by my partner as 'he's just like that' and 'he's handsy'. I still don't think behaviour like that should be brused under the carpet and I'm fuming at my partner that he doesn't appear to be taking my concerns seriously and advocating for his child's safety and wellbeing. A comment was also thrown in about 'washing grandads bum in the bath for 50p'
Fast forward to now and I have just been informed that his dad will be visiting this weekend and he will have the conversation with him in the car on the way over.
I have had conversations with my 4 year old about private areas on bodies and how no-one is allowed to touch there (exception being helping clean and if a doctor needs to examine) and I hope he is confident enough to speak up if it happens again. I have told my partner that if I see anything like that again, I will call it out and it probably won't be pleasant. I'm already kicking myself for not speaking up the previous times it has happened.
I'm dreading them turning up on Friday and the conversation having not happened (my partner is not very strong and he has said its an awkward conversation to have which is why it hasn't happened yet)
I'm not sure why anyone would ever have to have a conversation like this with any normal functioning adult, surely it's obvious it is wrong?!

I would be furious that he invited his father against your wishes never mind the rest of it, you need to start laying down the law your spineless partner won't 🤬
No one should be in your home, in your Safe space when you feel uncomfortable having them there!
As for the comment about the fifty pence, I have no words perhaps 'did you mean to sound like a paedophile'
I am very creeped out by this, I wouldn't have him under my roof (under the patio more like)

DP is refusing to protect the DC. What are you going to do about it? Are you so afraid of DP that you can't tell him that FIL is banned from the house and banned from contact with DC? What do you think DP will do to you if you put your foot down?

I’d be visiting my parents for the weekend, personally.

OP you can just “hope” your 4year old speaks up if he’s abused. You have to stop it happening.
Nothing else to say.

'He's hansdy' is what people used to say back in the 1970s about the pervert in the office at work, so what your partner is saying is that his father is known for sexually molesting children but that's just what he's like there's nothing you can do about it
WTF!!
No offence but I'm finding it hard to believe that your post is real this is so out of order 🤬

why are you allowing this situation to continue.
why is your partner just telling you that his father is staying, when you are not comfortable with that.
you have to put your foot down.
can you go away for the weekend, stay with relatives, or in a hotel.
it's important, not just to get away from FIL, but to show that you will not tolerate this situation.

@PacifyLulu

OP you can just “hope” your 4year old speaks up if he’s abused. You have to stop it happening. Nothing else to say.

Exactly. I was that child. Do NOT rely on it. I wish you strength, OP x

This is the part when you go into beast mode. How dare he behave like that!
The instant you feel it's inappropriate touching/tickling, you telling him straight if he gets "handsy" then you will get "handsy" with him. He has already made you uncomfortable with his touching, you told your partner and if he won't protect your child it's up to you! Even the "joke" he made is just sick????
And fuck any politeness, this sick piece of shit is banking on you being too nice to say anything.

Say to him, out loud, in front of people, that he shouldn't be touching your child like that.

Ooh but you might embarrass him?

Good.

Is English your DH’s first language? Because I agree with the pp that “handsy” means gropey. If he’d said “tactile” that is more neutral although it can of course just be an excuse or smokescreen.
Did you ask your DH what he meant by “handsy”? Don’t leave your child with either grandfather or grandfather plus DH. DH may block out inappropriateness if it’s something he can’t process his father being guilty of.

Be very vigilant and put your child first.

Most children are abused by people they know.

My half brother was "handsy" and that was "just his way" (as described by my mother). I don't remember much before the age of 10 when he started sexually abusing me. It went on for YEARS. I am still in therapy in my 50s.

Do not let this person into your children's home, where they should be safe. It's up to you to protect them as your partner clearly isn't going to.

Do you think that he may have also been abused by his dad?

Can you leave for the weekend? I agree the onus should not be on your child to protect themselves. I also agree about going into beast mode. And think very carefully if your DP has your child's best interests at heart - that carelessness about boundaries is extremely worrying.

If you don't go away with your child for the weekend then be prepared to set FIL straight. There will be fall-out. But that is better than the alternative. Protect your child and listen to your instincts.

Just take your DC away for the weekend and don't put them in harms way. Maybe DP will realise the seriousness of the situation then.

So OP you have been witness to inappropriate touching of your DS?

You have also been witness to inappropriate discussions of your FIL asking your DS to "wash his bum for 50p in the bath?"

Your partners response to this inappropriate behaviour is that his father is "handsy" ?

What on Earth is wrong with you OP? Why would you let this man into your home again, let alone anywhere near your children?

I can't quite get my head around the fact that you are hoping your 4yr old will speak up and challenge your FIL, if he feels his grandfather has touched him inappropriately?

Are you serious?

You need to keep your FIL away from your children!
Your partner needs to inform him he's no longer welcome in your home, and he needs to mean it!

It's your duty to protect your children. Protect them!

Forget what your husband is or isn’t doing why are you letting this happen?

Stop letting your partner make this decision. If you have to stand in your front door step and tell your father in law that you will call the police to have him removed from your property if he tries to enter then follow through. Protect Your Child. To hell with the consequences of what your terrible partner and his father say about it. That’s your priority - protecting your child. Do not let him in your home again.

My ds was abused by one of his dad's carers when he was 11, things like tickling him then went on to him slipping his hand down the back of his trousers when he was laid on his front on the floor playing with his Nerf guns. Thankfully ds realised what was happening & spoke up. He has had 6 years of counselling & psychotherapy to deal with the after effects but even now at 17 is terrified of men to the extent he would rather walk miles than be alone in a taxi with a men, he can't stand to be touched or cuddled now. He went from being a child that loved hugs & cuddles to being terrified if anyone gets too close to him. Please protect your ds from this predator, he has already brainwashed your dh & is now grooming your ds, tell your dh that his dad isn't welcome in your home & if he insists on letting him stay you will have no option but to take the dc & stay somewhere else while he is there. I would also speak to someone in authority, the safeguarding lead at your doctor's or go to A & E & ask to speak to their safeguarding lead, this man beds to be stopped, your husband is condoning what your FIL is doing. Do whatever you have to & keep your dc safe.

I was seriously sexually abused by a family member when I was very little. My parents didn’t protect me, the perpetrator got away with it and I have hated the lot of them for it for my whole life.
Keep this man away from your child.
If you dither about, let this man have access to your child and wait for your useless husband to “say something”, your little boy could end up as psychologically damaged as I am and he’ll hate you when he’s old enough to realise you let him down.

Where is your FIL staying that he has to stay over an entire weekend? Surely a day visit is enough? I've noticed people on this site seem to need ILs staying over for a weekend to a week or 2 if they are merely over half an hour's drive away. 3 hours each way should only necessitate one night's stay at most. I don't get the UK/this site when it comes to this. Most people here do 2 or 3 hours each way day visits.

Your partner is being dismissive, neglectful and callous. Would he say 'that's just the way he is' and 'he is just handsy' if his father was outed as a paedophile? He seems to quick to enable and dismiss. It is NOT acceptable and quite frankly, I'd be worried not only about how ignorant of danger your partner is, but just what sort of partner you are with, your values seem poles apart! I could never look at my partner the same way again or have any respect for him, in fact I wouldn't want to leave my son alone with my partner for any extended period of time because your partner doesn't seem responsible enough.

FIL sounds dodgy as fuck, where does he normally live? I hope you don't say Cambodia or Mayasia or someone equally easy for a Paedophile to hide. On another note why do you need to have him stay for the weekend? Sod that paedo or no paedo.

Id be leaving with my 4yo and baby to visit friends/family/book into a hotel literally anywhere else

OP, please, please do everything you can to protect your child. This is how grooming starts, little slips of the hand until it becomes "normal" and begins to feel nice and then it escalates. Your son may not speak up for himself if he is threatened that "grandad will go to prison if you tell anyone and it will be all your fault" or whatever threat will be used to silence him.

My other concern is that your DH thinks this is all okay/normal and shouldn't be challenged. Has his father abused him too or has he witnessed the abuse of another child when younger? It can take a long time to admit to yourself, as a former abused child, that you need to step in to stop it happening again; I thought my abuser had only ever abused me and I didn't speak up to tell anyone until decades later when I saw the pattern was potentially going to be repeated. Yes, I'm projecting but these questions need to be considered.

Hopefully, all is well and you find your FIL is just uneducated and too "hands on" and modifies his behaviour but if it was me I definitely wouldn't be leaving my child alone with him and keeping a very close eye on him when he's lap cuddling closely etc.