Work meetings clashing with school pick-up are making me anxious

[LiquoriceAllsorts2]

I have received several meetings that clash with the time that I need to collect my kids. Where possible I have tried to make it work and have my husband collect but there is a couple that I can’t make work due to him being away. I will tell work I can’t make it and will need to leave early but I feel so anxious that it will reflect badly on me and hate that I have been put in this position.

feels that however hard I work, sometimes it just can’t be enough.

dont know what I am looking for really, just want to rant and get my frustrations out. I hate that this needs to be an issue.

Toxic working environment. My place is very clear that meetings are to be in core hours of 9-5 and the written reason for that is earlier or later meetings could disproportionately adversely affect women who are normally main childcare/school run people and could be seen as indirect sex discrimination 🤷‍♀️

not sure legally how accurate that is. But we don’t do it. In my team I won’t schedule a meeting until 9:30 onwards so people can do school run if necessary. And if I was trying to organise a meeting for late afternoon and someone couldn’t do it because of a school run I’d try and arrange for a different time or be fine with them missing the meeting if their attendance was 100% necessary (it usually isn’t).

Not everyone has set working hours! I WFH, and am contracted to work a certain number of hours a week. There is nothing in my contract about when they must be. I tend to move them about to fit my life. Sometimes I might work a few hours on an evening or weekend, in order to give myself more time to do other things during the weekday. I can even shift more hours to one week if I want.

Can you look at a childminder that does school pickup?

Our childminder used to do that (until we put our child in afterschool club), she had a child seat adapted people carrier. We had to tell the school who was picking up the child, the school (or class whattsapp) could probably give you recommendations. They also sorted out dinner. We found ours on childcare.co.uk but if you google childminder and your area you can see who is there and have a look at their reviews and OFSTED report. That way you can pick them both up from the same spot at 630 on days you need to

I think needing to finish by 5pm is entirely reasonable. In my experience, men are much less circumspect about this. I try to channel my old boss who would say something like “Hi all, shall we move this up an hour, I’m sure many of us have nursery pick ups post 5pm and the rest would welcome a 5pm finish too. I’ll assume that’s fine and reschedule the meeting unless I hear otherwise”.

I do this a lot for several meetings, dial in during the commute or leave early and dial in from the nursery car park but doesn’t work for every meeting, especially not in person. I try to be flexible to the extent possible. Some posters say not to do this as it confuses people which I do understand but I think it’s reasonable to try make it work if I can (dialling in/having husband collect etc) but within the limits of ensuring my kids are collected on time

Ultimately this is what you need to do if you are both out of the house. Which ideally might be only 1 day a week, if you both WFH 2 days. Agree with PP that with age comes seniority and the ability to say I need to leave at X time, IME much harder to do when younger and more junior. We had a nanny- housekeeper who worked 12-7pm cleaning the house and preparing an evenimg meal for everyone then mindimg DCs until we got home.

All the HR/legal/policy stuff people are saying is unhelpful. The only path forward is “Dear X, Afraid I have to leave at 5pm that day so can’t make this slot. Happy to do any other time that day including early morning or after 7.30pm. Thanks, Y”.

Repeat as needed. Nothing bad will happen. Sometimes they will move it, sometimes they will have it without you. In either scenario things will be ok! It is frustrating but it is part of life - just like it can be v annoying when two clients want to speak with you at the same time!!

I get it OP, it can be difficult. I had a call yesterday at drop off, it was pissing down with rain and the traffic noise due to the wet roads was just stupidly loud. I did manage to get onto a quiet side street to finish the call so we salvaged it.

There’s a good chance that if it's a large meeting then if it's a problem for you then it’sa problem for someone else too. If you can have a quiet word with the person who sets the meetings you might be able to bring it forward half an hour or more without causing too much disruption.

People may be scheduling after 5 as they collect their kids at normal school pick up so they are ready for a 5pm meeting.

I refuse any meetings between 3-4pm. I just say I cant make that time and suggest earlier.

That's crazy - are you so senior that there is no-one to address this? I manage a team, we have good flexibility but there is no way it would be appropriate for anyone on the team (including me) to regularly decline meetings between 3 and 4! Occasional clashes are fine and can be managed.

Block the time out and tell them you aren’t available that time.
sounds like that’s fine given your working arrangements!

Senior enough that I can say no.

Back to OP ...

Your posts, all of which I have read, don't add up.

I appreciate that some people have such senior jobs that working very long hours, including early starts / late evenings, is inevitable.

That doesn't sound like your situation though, in terms of your anxiety over not being available for the 5 p.m. meetings, and not having the kind of disposable income that means you can throw money at the problem (again, most people can't!)

The idea that you have contracted hours but still, don't have set working hours makes no sense. Of course you may choose or have to work late, but a standard contract will provide the expected working hours, though may caveat it with 'and other times according to business need' or similar.

From the level of management you appear to be at, you should be able to do two things

• Have a clear understanding of what your scheduled working hours are e.g. 9 - 5 with a 30 minute break (for example) even if practically speaking you on occasion work longer
• Clearly state your lack of availability, as others have suggested, after a certain time, barring extreme/occasional need.

Finally, routinely working after hours when your children are in bed isn't sustainable. You will do more and more work, that's all there is to it - and if you stop, they'll wonder why you aren't still churning out work as needed.

There is a balance - I work in a middle management position in a university; I manage a very busy team, I spend a lot of time in meetings. I choose to occasionally do some work in the evenings / weekends - that ensures research / project work or projects I'm particularly focused on for myself, get done. But the idea I would be expected to work a full day, then start again at 7.30 is not reasonable or something that should happen. You really need to address this.

I’m a senior leader in finance. Block out your calendar and when you get a meeting, say “unfortunately I am unavailable after 5.” I would 100% support you in this and sometimes people need to be more thoughtful…

well that's fair enough then! If you are at COO / CEO / Director level and presumably working long hours in many other ways, that makes sense.

Anything less than that, I'd still question it - I mean, technically, I can say no to most meetings so I suppose I could do similarly but I wouldn't. It would impact on others and isn't fair. If I really need to do something personal or child-related during work time, I'm happy enough to say this and see if we can agree a different time, just as I am for anyone on my team as it's upfront and reasonable in the context of everyone trying their best. Not the same as declining every meeting between 3 and 4!

Why don’t you do what the rest of us do and pay someone to collect your children?

Honestly if it's irregular. I'd just mention at the beginning of the meeting that I have a hard stop at 5pm.

I doubt anybody will ask why but if they do i'd tell them that them that unfortunately it's frowned upon to abandon children.

They’re not 10-6 people. Core hours are quite a public sector thing.

Many many people in my company work 7am to 10pm. That’s their choice, but they won’t see anything wrong with the occasional 5pm or 8am meeting.

it’s not about HR or having a contract, and neither of these things are relevant to leaders anyway. It’s about the perception from your stakeholders when you consistently reject 5pm meetings. They won’t sack you. They might think less of you though.

Why don't you read the full thread? She already uses after school club.

Are your hours really not contracted as a start and finish time? 40 hours means 8-5 or 9-6.

You mention nannies but what about childminders? Some will work later (up to 6.30 and also will take from 7, obviously depends on area and how subscribed they are).

I have been totally unsuccessful with this. Childminders don’t often work until 7.30pm (the time I would pick up if I left work at 6) because they have their own children to give dinner to and settle down.

None in my area work these hours.

what doesn’t add up?

I think it’s very normal to have contracted hours but not set working hours - would think this is the norm in lots of Jobs.

there are different levels of seniority. I have a senior job in the sense that I am part of the management team but I am not cfo level or the level directly below cfo.

I do earn a good salary but I pay a huge amount for the childcare I do have in place and with all the other costs of life etc I don’t have a lot left over.

the anxiety comes from wanting to be seen to be doing a good job and wanting to be seen as someone who can progress further whilst also needing to set boundaries. People are probably right that a lot of it is probably in my head and I need to be firmer but the juggle is real.

Really no contracted start and end time. I don’t think that is unusual and in many ways it’s great as it gives people flexibility to do what works for them but also creates challenges as everyone has different preferences and restrictions.