Work meetings clashing with school pick-up are making me anxious

[LiquoriceAllsorts2]

I have received several meetings that clash with the time that I need to collect my kids. Where possible I have tried to make it work and have my husband collect but there is a couple that I can’t make work due to him being away. I will tell work I can’t make it and will need to leave early but I feel so anxious that it will reflect badly on me and hate that I have been put in this position.

feels that however hard I work, sometimes it just can’t be enough.

dont know what I am looking for really, just want to rant and get my frustrations out. I hate that this needs to be an issue.

My nursery age child can’t be left unsupervised for long periods and some of these meetings are in person. If wfh I can leave a little bit later

Your working hours sound totally reasonable. I would be up front about that and say “sorry I can’t do meetings going to 6pm, I can do any meeting time within the window of 8.30- 5pm (5.30 if I join remotely) or I can do after 7.30pm if that suits others”. You’re clearly not shirking on those hours. There will be someone who won’t want 8.30am (those who get in late) and several who won’t want 7.30pm so it’s in everyone’s interests to be a bit flexible .

I agree with PPs that somehow this needs to be communicated widely so everyone knows you can’t do post 5/5.30 and you stop getting these requests over and over. Either block it in your diary or go via head of dept and ask it to be communicated to whoever organises the meetings.

Depends on the meeting. For some they are expected to check my calendar (more one on one meetings) but for others the expectation is to move things round to make it work (meeting with several people)

Do you have core hours? Or are you working with a global company/ client/ supplier that have different time zones?
Then these meetings need to be scheduled to suit a wide range of people.

If it's just some twat, I would take it up with your line manager as in effect you are required to work overtime. (There is some regulation if it's over 48h/week)

But what if you had another meeting then that was more important? What if you were on holiday/going to be on an aeroplane at that time? What if they set the meeting up at 2am? Nobody can expect you to just be available as and when they need you to be with no boundaries.
If you are needed in the meeting, then the meeting needs to be at a time you (and other key people) can attend. I block my calendar out if I need to leave on time - if someone sets up a meeting then 'sorry, I'm not available then, can do x time or y time' and let them rearrange (or if you need to be in the meeting, but won't be needed to speak, they can record it and you can catch up after you've done pick up. You're not refusing to do something that is expected of you, you're refusing to be in several places at once, which is a totally fine thing to do!

Massive sympathy here but truth is confident boundaries are the only answer.

Unfortunately being a parent isn't a protected characteristic unless it is being a parent or carer to someone with a protected characteristic (e.g., a disabled child)

But being female is - and as the poster said, women are most likely to have caring responsibilities and therefore it primarily will disadvantage women, making it indirect discrimination, which is covered under the Equality Act.

is it always the same people organising the bigger meetings? If yes, might it be helpful to have a chat with them to explain that parents in the company may be busy at that time and to consider an hour earlier, as you said.

@LiquoriceAllsorts2

How frequent are these meetings? (approximately as I know they are ad hoc) and how much notice do you get?

Not having set hours makes it so much harder but if you are responsible for managing your own hours then you should be able to say "I will be in the office from 8.30 - 5pm on Thursday so I will need to leave the meeting at 5pm". You cannot be expected to plan every single week around ad hoc meetings when you have children in paid childcare? Your childcare has been arranged around your own diary.

I'd be inclined to email my direct manager to clarify things. I would sell it more as "could XYZ meetings possibly be scheduled for regular timeslots, as opposed to decided on an ad hoc basis to allow me to manage my diary more effectively"

I work for a US company, I do have set hours but a while back I was expected to attend occasional late meetings which were usually put in my diary at very short notice. Luckily I wasn't the only one to raise the issue of not being able to attend so we now have these meetings in a more scheduled format (twice a month) and I make alternative pick up arrangements for my youngest as their after school provision closes at 6pm.

But the organisation can just wheel out two women who don't have children to pick up and can make the meeting or two men who do pick up and the case is over.

That's so "indirect" it's almost invisible. All they need to do is establish that this is the only time that the rest of the attendees were available

This is hard OP

who wants a meeting right at the end of the day?

i suppose those scheduling the meetings are men/ people with no kids?

i would decline or say you can attend until 5pm

It doesn't work like that. There are examples of similar situations being ruled as indirect discrimination.
If the OPs workplace has policies or practices (formal or informal) which could be putting people with a protected characteristic at a disadvantage it could be ruled as discriminatory. Regularly scheduling a meeting which doesn't finish until 6pm could fall into this category as it would disadvantage more women due to them taking on more of the childcare responsibilities in society.
It doesn't matter if they could wheel out childless women or men with children.

Just want to say I totally feel for you. Working life isn't set up with mothers in mind (or anyone who's got young kids, male or female, but in many if not most families it's the woman). I think it just shows what a long way we have to go to properly integrate women into the workplace. We once did this training about 'unconcious bias' where we role played different scenarios where a manager has to choose, for a promotion, between a male and female employee. In one scenario the manager was favouring the man, in one was neutral, in one was favouring the woman. However, by the end of the role play in each of the scenarios the promotion was offered to the man, because his availability seems complete and he was able to focus on work completely, whereas the woman was meant to be everything to everyone while apparently working full time. I'm sorry to say but the system is rigged. I'm very lucky that I work in higher education which has been (for me, in my experience) incredibly family friendly.

That's such an awful time for a meeting for anyone. It's not unreasonable to talk with your line manager about your need to finish work by 5pm or 5.30pm for caring responsibilities. You can and are flexible when you can be but it's reasonable for this to happening over and over again. You've very sensibly got your childcare during your normal working hours sorted but if nursery closes at 6pm or a childminder ends their hours at a set time, it's not fair or equitable.

Even though my kids are older and don't need picking up somewhere I'd be annoyed at meetings finishing later than a time I want/need to finish for any reason that impacts on my life outside work.

If these late meetings are impacting on and inconveniencing primarily working parents I'd say there's also a case to bring this up with HR on disadvantaging people.

That's how indirect discrimination works - it is almost invisible but doesn't make it right.

They'd have to prove that it was an absolute business need for these meetings to take place at this time and that there was no alternative.

It depends what was agreed. If you have the type of job where things can be flexible and it was agreed you'd be offline 8.15-9.15 and 3-4, or whatever, then speak to your manager and ask that your diary be blocked out.
If you're supposed to be available 9-5, then look into breakfast club and afterschool, or family/friends helping if possible, with you maybe doing favours for them on weekends or holidays,

If your contract hours are until 6pm, you can’t say anything - and really need to think about asking if another parent might collect them for you, perhaps in exchange for a payment? Basically you need a long term, perhaps even asking if you can start you day half an hour earlier and therefor finish accordingly.

But if this is just once or twice, can you not say that you have a couple of doctors appointments that you cannot reschedule and would appreciate the meetings being moved earlier or being allowed to leave by 530?

"I know that is someone else’s problem".

... though it sort of becomes problem if it adversely affects your appraisals and whether you're considered and reliable and committed staff member. Which I appreciate is an unhelpful comment as I'm not putting forward any solutions

But the indirect bit you are referring to is parental status. They aren't saying all parents are banned but their policy makes it nigh on impossible for primary caregivers to attend. I agree. But parental status isn't protected so the company can do what it wants.

Indirect sex discrimination would only be applicable if men who were primarily caregivers were not impacted.

It would be lovely if we could claim that being buggered over at work because of parental status is indirect sex discrimination. It would solve the pay gap and women falling out of work. But sadly it isn't the case.

Correct, hence the point about women being more likely to have caring responsibilities (as that’s how you make it work as an indirect sex discrimination claim). Employment lawyer here, and it’s a commonly argued point on this basis. Getting harder now more men also have these caring responsibilities (so the disadvantage becomes less gender specific) but still arguable on the basis that more women are likely to be impacted as they are still more likely to bear these responsibilities.

I just block my diary if I am not available. If someone sends me a meeting invite and my diary clearly says I am busy I feel well within my right to decline it.

If you read all the OP's replies she confirms this is to do pick up after school / nursery hours. She already uses wrap around care / has her nursery aged child in until 6pm.

In all honestly I don’t think there really are suggestions (other than just say no which I obviously know) so think it’s just this sympathy and recognition that it’s tough that I need. Just wanted to let my frustrations out