Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle

I'm guessing it works like the witch trials.

If a woman has been demonstratively harmed to the point of proper satisfaction of their being actual, acceptable harm by objective standards and evidence, and if conviction is prosecuted successfully, and gets through court to a sentence, and then becomes public knowledge - then the woman the perp harmed is allowed to be vindicated instead of vilified as alleging and/or transphobic. (Which of course she will have been to this point.)

And then male people will hand down their decree on whether or not the perp's self ID is ok or not.

Not that different to the days when you tied up and threw a woman into the water and if she drowned you knew she was innocent.

If Robin isn't sure what sex they are, then how could they know if they were trans? Isn't 'being one sex but another gender (?)' supposedly the definition? Robin wouldn't be being dishonest when they say it's too complicated to be binary, would they?

I've seen Robin do that whole "it's complicated" thing a few times now. It must be quite a revenue generator. Make everyone nervous and confused, charge them a lot to tell them a load of tosh.

What a ridiculous situation.

This was earlier in the session. Maya had a fit of the giggles. See below. Apparently she'd read the below, (or similar)

Ah I knew it!

nilsmousehammer · Yesterday 20:57

If a woman has been demonstratively harmed to the point of proper satisfaction of their being actual, acceptable harm by objective standards and evidence, and if conviction is prosecuted successfully, and gets through court to a sentence, and then becomes public knowledge - then the woman the perp harmed is allowed to be vindicated instead of vilified as alleging and/or transphobic. (Which of course she will have been to this point.)

And then male people will hand down their decree on whether or not the perp's self ID is ok or not.

Not that different to the days when you tied up and threw a woman into the water and if she drowned you knew she was innocent.

How true this is!

If sex is not binary, then how is it that men all seems to 'transition' to become the other sex?

It's quite a mystery. What we need is Scooby Doo on it.

This is an interesting point.

An amendment in the GRR for spousal consent was voted down. The spousal consent requirement was to allow wives of transitioning partners the time to have a marriage annulled before their husband became a legal ‘woman’ and they ended up in a ‘lesbian’ relationship without their consent.

It was widely mislabelled by the activists as ‘spousal veto’ to imply that it allowed a wife to block a GRC. It didn’t, it just gave some regard to the requirements of the wife who had just had her life turned upside down.

The Women & Equalities Select Committee (led by and mostly consisting of trans activists) also argued strongly against any spousal consent clause in the UK GRA reform consultation where they also strongly recommended self id.

So it seems that RMW is a now a definite supporter of actual spousal veto (not just consent) - what a turn up for the books!

How outrageous that the opportunity for an annulment was lost. That would mean a lot to some women as a legal validation of their experience of having lived on the basis of someone else’s lie.

After a birth certificate with a new sex on it is an annulment of the facts of a birth.

Didn’t Graham’s wife tell one of the tabloids he’s putting it on?

The whole “sex is complicated” is so yawn-inducing and trite. Can’t TRAs just quietly move on from that and accept it’s never going to wash? You can’t gaslight the entire world into believing the binary sex of the entire world they see around them every waking hour or every day they’ve been alive. Just give it a rest Robin.

Has the spousal consent thing ever gone the other way? Has there been any man whose wife has transitioned and left the marriage?

I did hear of one somewhere. I am so sorry I can’t think where for this thread. The transman seemed to be in the home after transitioning but then ‘his’ husband would abuse ‘him’ physically as he reacted to ‘him’ as to a man he was annoyed with.

I know Robin isn't able to say what a woman is. (See the OP in this thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546679-maya-and-robin-on-what-is-a-woman-personnel-today )

Is Robin able to say what 'trans' is? I thought it was 'if you are male, declaring that you are a person who is in some way akin to a female person but obviously not female by sex - that's not only impossible but also 'too complicated' - but adopts certain characteristics that many, but by no means all, female people also demonstrate, and it's entirely down to the individual as to which female people's characteristics they cite as the relevant criteria for being that category of person, and relies heavily on signifiers relating to physical appearance' (and vice versa for trans men).

In any case it's the declaration that means you are trans, so making the declaration IS being trans.
Or are there further criteria?

I guess we'll never know.

Thank you, ScrollingLeaves.

As always, so unbalanced in the effects on individuals as categorised by sex.

Men don't like hearing the word 'no'/being laughed at; women don't like being beaten up/raped/killed.

And women are the ones who need to reframe their trauma?

Poor old Sam Smith.
Even in his very bestest non-binary finery they just isn’t gendered correctly, not even by the specialist barrister who won at the landmark NB rights Jaguar LandRover tribunal.

Maybe it's a recent change and Robin just missed it?

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom more to the point what were you looking at on Twitter to find that?

Do I need to check who you are following again?

Ha! I’m not really following anyone, honest guv!

(is guv gender neutral?)

I actually went off to see what was happening re: The Guardian review of the Harry Potter game.

it’s not going well.

I'm sorry, when did the Guardian become a transphobic newspaper? Has anyone let Owen know?

Purity spirals. A game of fun-fur for all the misguided, or uneducated.

Yes, he must feel terribly unsafe now, poor wee mite.

RMW has also now defamed Dr Foran on Twitter.

"Once again a barrister accuses me (although at this point the misspelling of my name must be intentional) of endangering the lives of trans people. This is so deeply unprofessional, inappropriate, and bordering increasingly on defamatory."

Not just Michael

We had the measure of this person a long time ago. It gives me no satisfaction to say I told you so. People should listen to women.

I don't even have to risk saying something that might get me deleted. AGAIN! Just look on twitter.

People are not happy with RMW. Plus quite a few tweet responses to RMWs last few tweets mention RMW and mumsnet.

None of them are by me though. 🤐

Maya’s fit of giggles apparently was highly disrespectful. Mentioned in this article. Reminded me of Germaine Greer (?) saying men fear women laughing at them. Women fear men killing them.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/brianna-ghey-trans-girl-stabbed-death-b2281353.html