Hope Robin doesn't get bullied by any troublesome witches.

Robin be honest you picked Vickey as an example because you are shamelessly using Vickeys vulnerability, vickys bad mental health and the fact that Vicky only shoplifted to make your case that not all transwomen in prison deserve to be with the big bad men? Seriously? And why is that women's problem Robin? Why? It's it because we are just witches Robin?

Finally I agree with Robin. Robin is right using women as a human shield buffer zone is not the right thing to do. Well done Robin. Please tell me when i press play you are about to expand that realisation to no men in the female estate. Please?

I do hope Robin passes through here as a couple of things were raised that were, quite frankly, dog whistles.

Robin talked of Vikki Thompson, a TW who died at the age of 21 in HMP Leeds (commonly known as Armley). This appalling death was used by Robin as an example of a TW who shouldn't have been in the male estate. Robin got GB News to display a photo of Vikki Thompson.

Thompson's life could have been lifted straight out of 'Happy Valley' - came from Keighley in West Yorkshire, very disadvantaged childhood and life generally, drink, drugs, long history of self-harm, harmed by others as a child etc. Vikki was let down by people right, left and centre. Dreadful, no doubt about it.

The jury at the inquest decided Vikki had not intended to commit suicide and that Armley was indeed the right jail for Vikki. A friend in Armley said Vikki thought 'she was treated as a god and wouldn't get special treatment in a women's jail'. The equalities officer at Armley asked Vikki about trying to transfer to the female estate but the reply was no, because female prisoners would be 'bitchy'. Vikki was also told to write to the prison governor to effect a transfer, but Vikki never did that.

(The above from The Guardian 19 May 2017, article by Helen Pidd, north of England editor).

So, Robin, on what basis should Vikki Thompson (who did not hold a GRC nor had ever applied for one) have been transferred to the male estate?

Robin also sank so low as to compare not allowing males into the female estate with apartheid in South Africa.

We could all say a lot about that, I'm sure, but the point I will make here to you Robin, is that apartheid was about power. You know that. Power differentials between the different ethnic groups - whites at the top, 'coloureds' (as the term was then) in the middle and blacks at the bottom.

One sex has historically prevented the other from:
Owning property (even the clothes on their backs)
Going to school and university
Graduating when finally allowed to attend uni
Having the vote
Standing for parliament
Having control over their own body
Going out of the house unaccompanied
Going to work

In addition to using their greater physical strength to keep the other down.

We all know which sex has done/is doing it to which.

During apartheid, one group kept the others down and 'in their place'. The whites did that to the other groups.

So - I would say all men, regardless of their ethnicity = whites, while all women, again regardless of their ethnicity = blacks. The one group wielding their power over the other.

Translate that to prisons with the more powerful group (yes, even poor Vikki Thompson) being able to insinuate themselves into places where the less powerful are and what happens? They continue exercising their power over the less fortunate. It is therefore nothing like apartheid, at least not in the way you mean it.

Please think up some better arguments if you are going to appear on television with the redoubtable Sarah Philimore.

Sigh. Pressed play.... But and into apartheid South Africa

Angry growllllllll

Robin also sank so low as to compare not allowing males into the female estate with apartheid in South Africa.

People who hold the views that Robin does usually get racist if asked to speak about them for long enough, so I'm not surprised.

Just got to Sarah....she only went and did it.

You bloody gorgeous woman you!

Oh such fun he he he hehe he

Sarah then finishes of with stuff we all know!

Sarah you bloody rock Woman!I

Wow Robin.

Pitiful.

Pitiful.

All yes but but but! I'm a builder I could have done a better job at arguing for the trans right side.

Woeful.

Using vulnerable suicide cases, that were MEN. Children being abused by their parents as a reason to trust the prison service to make the right decision (they are letting men in bloody women's prisons Robin. We can't Fucking trust them.why the hell should we be expected to Robin?). Then as a last pathetic attempt to salvage yourself you bring up white men subjegating and entire race by highlighting Apartheid in South Africa.

Is that it?

When it comes down to it and the shit hit the fan as we all kept saying it would, so righteous that you are right you didn't realise your whole argument is based on smoke and mirrors.

Well the mirrors been smashed, and the smoke has cleared. And you've got nothing Robin.

Nothing.

And whilst I'm here

How dare you co-opt not just my sex but an example of someone like mines childhood. Trust social services? No Fucking way. They left me to my fate with a violent enormously disturbed mother and her twice convicted rapist once convicted murderer boyfriend. How do you think that worked out for me Robin? Oh and to remove any doubt Social Services KNEW the double rapist murderer was going to rape me.

Don't you ever use that as an example again. It doesnt work.

You might not come back. I hope you do because despite your inability to insult us we want answers.

And Robin...

YOU ARE A MAN

You are not a woman

correction to this line i missed a word

You might not come back. I hope you do because despite your inability to NOT insult us we want answers.

Oh Sarah, I am so so in awe and admiration of you. So clear, so articulate, so much integrity. Thank you.

Robin......I just don't get it. Nothing makes any sense. Why is it ok for Graham to go to a male prison if a transwoman is a woman if they say they are? Why is Graham not committed enough to his affirmation in his lived gender or however you termed that weird description? He wore pink? Had a spotty umbrella? Blonde bob? Wears make up? Went on a Hair & Beauty course with a load of 16 yr old girls....

Why is you choosing they/them pronouns a thing to indicate you have doubts as to the veracity of his claims to be a woman? Do you use they/them if someone's shifty? What does that say about your acceptance of NB people? What are your views on NB? Has Adam Graham ever asked for they/them pronouns? Or are you ok with not using someone's preferred pronouns? If so, why? Why not used sex based ones in that case?

Why are you ok with someone who identified as a woman going to a men's prison, but you're definitely not ok with them going to a trans wing? Why is it preferable for someone who identifies as a woman to be held in the male estate than a trans wing? Surely, as a trans rights activist, a trans wing is infinitely preferable to being housed in the 'wrong' sex jail? Or is it only rapists that you don't subscribe to equal trans rights for? In which case do you think because Katie Dolatowski didn't rape anyone, just tried and intended to, they are ok to stay in the female estate? So rape is the only bar? In which case, were you ok with Karen White?

Basically, it's not at all clear what your position is. I don't get it. But it seems to me that you don't support self ID, not all transwoman are women in your view and some are so low down in your priorities that you're ok with them going into the main male prison population and not receiving any gender affirmative mitigation at all. Seems a bit.....Trans Exclusionary..?

@MorvenOfMalvern did you hear her say it when taking direct to Robin? I want to kiss her. And I'm straight.

I like that other posters watched it all and did considered response that picked up Biggs i missed in my comment by sentence approach.

But i was just to gobsmacked that the arguments from Robin weren't just poor, they were astoundingly diabolical. Misrepresenting facts, misgendering people. Although there was a lot of that going on by all parties on there this evening.

I'm just....

Honestly...

Completely unsurprised. When you haven't got a case to argue there's not much you can do really is there?

Hope someone clips that segment because

Sarah spoke the truth

IT support is needed I'm still on dial-up. Mainly because I like the sounds it makes

@Spero thanks, you marvellous adult human female

And men need to stay out of the women's toilets. As well as prisons.

All men. Because using Robin's rules apparently some men says they are trans and they shock horror might not be.

But, don't worry witches there is a fool proof way to tell. If they rape a woman then they are probably, not trans. Despite having uttered the magic "I am trans" Robin is suddenly gatekeeping transness. Robin is using they for Isla which means Robin misgendered That transwoman as Isla is most definitely a she. The pink gave it away quite frankly.

Now if we do that we are called transphobic, so unfortunately Robin due to your transphobic comments this evening in afraid I have to inform you that you are in fact a TERF. Sorry Robin.

So this is where the problem is Robin. You've just admitted on live tv that you can't be sure that a man who has said he is a woman is definitely a woman.

Your only way to determine this seems to be the fact that he had now been convicted of rape.

So how about all the men who haven't gone to trial yet, haven't been charged yet, haven't been arrested yet, haven't found the right victim yet? All those men identifying as women are according to Robins logic probably not trans either.

And if Robin can't tell who is a trans woman and who is a man pretending to be trans then I have to ask Robin

How the fuck can we?

Do you get it yet Robin?

You can't tell. We can't tell.

MEN or trans?

And until there is some way for us women to know the Fucking difference all of them can all get the hell out of our spaces

Every single one of them.

No ifs

no buts.

No debate

So sorry I missed this. Anyone got a link?

@Boiledbeetle

Exactly.

And it clearly makes no sense because the fundamental point about humanity is that some people are completely awful human beings.They murder and abuse, and do awful disgusting things to children or people in lower positions of power to them.

Some men are awful human beings
Some women are awful human beings
Some English people are human beings
Some black people are human beings
Some Hispanic people are awful human beings
Some Brexit voters are awful human beings
Some remainers are awful human beings.
Some people are awful human beings.

But trans people? No.
If they are an awful human being then they aren't trans.

No. By your logic they are. They say they are.

And that is why the sex only safeguards are there.

It is not about an individual and how nice they are.
It's to safeguard against the few who are not. It's about potentials and possibilities.

Only a person with a penis can rape a woman.
People with a penis should not be placed with vulnerable women in women's only spaces.

This is not an attack on men. This is not an attack on trans women. It is simply a measure to stop the possibility of women a) being violated or b) feeling the threat of violation.

Most men don't rape
Most trans women don't rape.

We know.

That's not the point.

Robin called us witches, that's an awful thing to do. Therefore, by Robin's own logic,.......omg!

we Aren't troublesome. We are lovable rogues!😉

I'm also heterosexual but have quite the girl crush going on!

As straight as I am, I have always found intelligence, articulacy and integrity particularly attractive. That is someone with a steadfast moral compass and a lot of brains - what's not to like!

For the poster above who wanted a link, sorry I'm on the previous page to get this post so can't remember who asked.