@AlwaysTawnyOwl with thanks to @Boiledbeetle

Snap😁

@Spero thank you.

I'm sorry I keep subjecting you to my poems, but sometimes a thread comes up that one seems relevant for.

All of us on here, well, nearly all of us, have one thing in common. We all come from different places religions countries, etc. But the one thing we all share, that no man ever can, is the very fact of being a woman.

We don't have to pretend to be women. We don't have to feel like a woman (whatever the fuck that means). We don't all have to agree our gender is female.

We just are women.

So, personally from now on I'm done: No more mental gymnastics, no forcing myself to ignore my eyes, ignore my brain, ignore my ears, no ignoring my gut, and certainly no ignoring any woman's sexual preferences.

Just because some man has decided he wants to have a bit of that which does not belong to him?

Fuck that. Anyway poem below.

WOMEN OF EXTREMES

From Barbie to GI Joe we are woman.
From high heels to rigger boots we are woman.
From flat chested to buxom we are woman.
From mother of six to barren with nil we are woman.
From “3 days, very light” to “36 days now, still flooding” we are woman.
From homeless with nothing to millionaire’s row we are woman.
From far left to far right we are woman.
From pro-choice to pro-life we are woman.
From (pick religion of choice) to no God at all we are woman.
From only does cock to only does cunt we are woman.
From all walks of life and from all points of view we are woman.
From time of conception to moment of death WE ARE WOMAN.

You wonderful women, every single one of you.Especially @Spero, We are so proud of you tonight.

Boiled x

Just saw the clip. Spero-- you are amazing. Thank you

Worth watching Akua stating her position at the top of the programme, also!
I like her

@Spero was brilliant. Robin MW looked a total fool, tbh.

😸🍰

So RMW who is intelligent, educated, something of an expert in trans matters and is presumably fairly well versed in this case having spoken about it several times admits that RMW can't necessary judge if someone if genuinely trans or merely a nasty bastard who is prepared to pop on some ugly, ill fitting leggings and a spot of lippy when it suits their agenda. (One of the things that we all know will never happen because we been told it won't).
But RMW thinks my almost 80 year old mother - still suffering trauma from having the bathroom door kicked in by a nasty bastard man who dragged her out of the bath by her hair because she hadn't vacated the room quickly enough for his liking isn't allowed a moment of doubt or hesitation or fear or 'I wonder what if that bloke in a dress is actually a nasty bastard' when one walks into the women's bathroom because to do that makes her mad, a witch, a generally bad egg?
Men should stay out of women's spaces, women's sports and women's awards and if any man genuinely 'felt like women' they would absolutely understand why that is the right thing to do.

For you and your mum. I hope she's on the mend. Not that easy to do at 80. Just because some man wanted something a woman currently had.

💐🌻🌷🌼🌸🏵🌺🌹💐

🔥✨@Spero that was so good. The proper-sexed pronouns make everything so clear and grounded. That made me want to punch the air.

I noticed that RMW had a little dig at the Children’s Act there.

His analogy there is such a bloody stretch, so manipulative. When making a difficult decision about whether to keep a child with borderline unfit parents or remove them, the child’s welfare is paramount in the situation. The question is “what is more harmful, separating the child from their parents or leaving the child in a potentially harmful environment?”.

When making the ‘difficult decision’ about where to place a man in prison is he thinks/or claims to think he is a woman, he is not a child, his needs are not paramount. He is in prison being punished for a crime.

Obviously he (and all prisoners) needs to be kept safe and he has modified his body in such a way that it makes him vulnerable, he needs to be in a separate wing of the men’s prison for vulnerable prisoners.

And the apartheid thing ffs.
I mean, if the man is in for something small and non-violent, it’s not like it is going to be a long sentence.

Well done again SP for not letting any nonsense fly.

A WOMAN IS AN ADULT HUMAN FEMALE. A MAN IS AN ADULT HUMAN MALE. A HUMAN CANNOT BECOME THE OTHER SEX, THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE. THEREFORE MALE PRISONERS MUST, 100% OF THE TIME, GO IN THE MALE PRISON ESTATE. MEN HAVE NO PLACE IN WOMEN'S PRISONS.

@Boiledbeetle it was 60 years ago when she was in her teens and the nasty bastard in question was her father. She is absolutely fine almost all of the time but finds the presence of a man in a women toilet utterly trigging.
She is far from a bigot and anti- trans - she spent half of one of my siblings wedding dancing and chatting and laughing with a trans guest. But she gave herself a nasty UTI a few years ago when she when into flight mode when I made the stupid mistake of taking her the theatre in Brighton and she had inevitable encounter in the 'ladies' and was too embarrassed to tell me.

Sorry to hear about your mum @OttersMayHaveShiftedInTransit . Much love to you both.

It raises such an important point though doesn't it. That MPs like LRM and BB would say Miriam Cates was transphobic for recounting her story about not knowing what the intention of the male standing behind her in the ladies loo was, but not having time to analyse it as she instinctively felt frightened, and Robin would have agreed that any doubt was transphobia too. But here we are with multiple politicians saying that because Graham is convicted of rape, maybe he's not a TW, or because he changed his gender identity after arrest, maybe he's not genuine. How on earth are women, stuck in a small space in a state of undress, or faced with a male in their dorm in a hostel, meant to be able to make those decisions? Knowing as they do that one word of doubt or any query would results in howls of transphobia and threats of legal action.

I suspect RMW won't answer any of my revision questions, ignoring them as they do. But I've got another one.

Would you change the pronouns of this person if you were in court? You opted for they/them - for reasons entirely unclear to everyone -but these have never to my knowledge been requested or used by the offender. So they're not their preferred pronouns, not do they reflect their stayed gender identity, nor their biological sex. This rapist's victims were made to listen to their attacker being described as she and her, and to the penis they had forced into them described as 'her penis'. This retraumatising language, and coerced speech is all part of something you have previously been on board with - they are who they say they are, misgendering is unacceptable etc.

So if you were in court during this trial, would you choose to use they/them? Or would you go along with she/her? How would you feel about feeling forced into it?

I'd say oh that's better, but it's really not. But you know what I mean! Give her the flowers anyway!

That's the thing most of my abuse was in childhood, yet over forty years later the smell of his aftershave, as it still exists, will trigger me. It's the oddest of things that cause the response and i have no control over that. And in toilets you have to take clothes off, there's no way to escape. it's like you are back there decades ago. tran

It's irrelevant if the person you know to be male that is in the women's toilets means you no harm and is, according to Robin, the right kind, harmless, real, not pretending transwoman. As there is no way of knowing that.

We are not transphobic. We aren't scared of the transwoman in our spaces, we are scared of what the man, that we see 👀 as a man, no matter what he feels, could potentially do to us.

Men are scared women will laugh at them.

Woman are scared men will hit/rape/strangle/kill them.

And there's your mother, a perfect example of when we include men we automatically have some women who will have to self exclude because of it.

so say if Robin uses women's toilets, and honestly I don't know if Robin does or not so this is a hypothetical thought, then Robin your choice to do that would mean many many women, like for example Otters mother, will have to wait until they get home. And for many reasons, but especially as women are more prone to water infections than men, it's not bloody right. And yes it may unfortunately be legal but it sure as hell isn't moral.

@Boiledbeetle @MorvenOfMalvern
Thank you both for your kind words and concern for mum. They mean a lot to me. I'm afraid to say I won't be passing them on to her because she would be horrified to know I have shared her story here but I am so fucking tired of women being told to shut up, sit down and be kind. I'm so fucking tired of 'it's only a toilet', 'people just want to pee' and 'want harm does it do anyone' and be kind. I'm beyond fucking tired of 'reframe your trauma' and 'it will never happen' and the thinly veiled misogyny, oh and be kind. I'm incandescent with women and girls being a buffer zone, a human shield, the collateral damage because otherwise a man might be sad.
I've had enough.

Something I noticed, RMW very confidently began by saying that everyone would agree with Sarah that this rapist didn't belong in a woman's prison.

Robin, no, that's no true. Lots and lots of people disagree. Lots of people support placing him there because he says he is a woman. Lots of people have said again and again that TWAW if they say they are, and we must believe them and if we don't we are bigots and deserve awful physical punishment, lots of people, including politicians, have said trans women should serve in women's jails, just as they should be admitted to ALL women's spaces.

The reason why that man was ever in a woman's prison, or on a beauty course where teenaged girls had to strip in front of him for spray tans, was because of all the people who disagree with Sarah, and have gone to such lengths to ensure that neither her or any of the rest of us ever get our voices heard.

Otherwise, we wouldn't be debating this at all, would we?

@OttersMayHaveShiftedInTransit then give her an extra long hug for no reason whatsoever!

I'm beyond fucking tired of 'reframe your trauma' and 'it will never happen' and the thinly veiled misogyny, oh and be kind. I'm incandescent with women and girls being a buffer zone, a human shield, the collateral damage because otherwise a man might be sad.

yeah I tried reframing my trauma in my teens and twenties and thirties. It just led to illegal drugs, being black out drunk and doing things that caused me to compound the existing trauma and add a whole different lot of trauma on top.

So, they can fuck off with that.

And i hope your listening Robin, no rape victim, not even the one your client is denying a single sex service to despite the law allowing for them to do exactly that and exclude transwomen, and certainly not me or @IamSarah will ever learn to centre our traumas around the sex that raped and abused us. Had there been an unknown man, or transwomen, in my therapy sessions I couldn't have attended. And without those sessions I don't think I'd still be here.

So no, rape victims won't be doing that.

We just want to get on with our therapy for being raped by a male with a penis, without having to worry about centering:

the man with a penis calling himself Barry and saying he's a man

OR

the man with a penis, (or not any longer personal choice, and all that), calling himself a transwomen, believing he's a woman, and calling himself Barbara.

OR

the man with the penis calling himself Annie or Isla who may be like Barry and Be a man, but also a man pretending to be like Barbara, OR may actually be telling the truth and actually be a transwoman like Barbara.

Because not one of those men should be in a women's only single sex, allowed by the law as a legitimate means to a legitimate aim, rape therapy session.

Men do not belong in women's single sex spaces. The law needs tightening up. We need to have the rights we weren't even told had been taken from us, back. And we will get them. And we need any other laws that have the same issues sorted as well.

And these days everyone is equal, anyone can marry anyone they like so it's time to repeal the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

And if that means 5000 men who currently have the legal right (and the many thousands more who know we can't tell the difference between the GRC holders and the self ID ones, and the, according to Robin, pretend ones that aren't trans at all, probably, maybe, Robin isn't to sure, especially as no-one is allowed to ask them) will have to get used to using the men's changing room, the men's toilets, the mens prisons, until those 5000 men and their millions of allies successfully get third gender neutral provision to compliment the existing two types of single sex provision.

There was a time we'd have helped them achieve that, but I'm personally all out of goodwill, and I've got no fucks left to give.

We didn't create this mess.

To think all this stems from a bit of law that was designed to alleviate the suffering of apparently only 5000 men, to the detriment of millions of women, without even asking us if that was OK, did we have any questions! See any ssues?

How can men who wish to be women, who feel like a woman be so incredibly cruel and selfish to the sex they apparently are in order to satisfy a male urge. Because whatever they think or call themselves the decision to become a woman was made by a man's brain. not a women's.

Thank you for the support and kind comments. This whole process has been so interesting. Like so many of you I have now had enough.

I was investigated by my regulator for two years. I had to make a FOIA request to get any meaningful Information from them and saw myself described as 'abhorrent' and that no one would instruct me. Like all cowards and bullies they backed down when I stood up to them and made it clear I would take them to court for unlawful discrimination. How dare they. How dare they try to punish me for talking about any of this.

In preparation for last night I read two documents - a Home Office report from 2000 and a 2019 report on policy capture from Murray and Blackburn. Women did not feature AT ALL in the 2000 report. Press for Change and GIRES did. The 2019 report made it clear that women were NOT consulted for the 2014 policy on Scottish Prisons. James Morton of the Scottish Trans Alliance was quoted as saying in 2018 that once transwomen were accepted in female prisons, other public services would follow suit.

This has been decades in the making and women have been excluded every step of the way.

So enough really is enough. Both the police and the BSB have come for me and both have failed. That was very foolish of them because that puts me in a very strong position indeed. I will continue to accept invitations to speak any time any place and anywhere - and if that's upsetting to 'left wing feminists' then that's just too bad. You crack on with your conferences.

Because once this ideology/theology is dragged kicking and screaming to a public stage, it self combusts immediately. Robin deciding to junk she/her pronouns for Adam Graham and wanting to avoid comment on Andrew Burns was very significant. These are the violent, dangerous, mentally ill women haters that this 'gender identity' bullshit has empowered and enabled. 'I am what I say I am' etc.

Well I am now extremely angry. And unlike these ridiculous men in balaclavas I am not afraid to show my face and I am able to direct my anger into coherent words and positive action.

I think this - finally! - has breached the dam. I am very sad and shocked that the mutilation of children didn't do it, but let's just get it done.

Enough.

@Spero

💐

And we could see your anger last night. I for one could not have stayed that calm in the same space as Robin Moira White. The words and sentiments that came out of Robin's mouth were to my ears particularly abhorrent last night.

There was complete uncaring for women and children. It was all about the needs and wants of the male transgender person.

The fact that Robin decided to gatekeep transness, accuse a transwoman of probably lying. Attempt to suggest a hierarchy of good transpeople crimes. Misrepresented the case of a man who committed suicide. The list just goes on.

So if it's good enough for Robin to not believe transwomen when they say they are women. If it's good enough for Robin to refuse to use the correct pronouns for someone. if it's good enough for Robin to not be sure...well then it's good enough for us to.

The damn had definitely been breached.

You did women a wonderful service yesterday and we are so bloody grateful.

Thank you.

Now I'd better get up and feed my cat otherwise my spells will never get done today!

To much time on Witchnet is my problem!

Spero

Sp many of us are also fuming on your behalf and on behalf of so many other women. Thank you for fighting so hard!

These are the violent, dangerous, mentally ill women haters that this 'gender identity' bullshit has empowered and enabled. 'I am what I say I am' etc.

👏

@Spero thank you for holding the line and speaking for so many women.

The truth is powerful, completely in awe of you.

@spero absolutely in awe of you.