Backlash against a hugging grandparents consent ad

[IwantToRetire]

(The ad, one of three, is part of a campaign called We-Consent, run by the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre (DRCC).)

Extract only:

A spokesperson for the Department of Justice said the videos were "produced by DRCC at low cost using volunteers and are not part of a government advertising campaign".

Meanwhile, Dr Eoin O'Malley, an associate professor at Dublin City University, said he believes the advert is the latest example of the state overreaching.

"You are seeing people pushing ideas that are beyond mainstream," he said.

O'Malley said that the importance of consent is reasonable to most people, but that the video is too extreme.

"The idea that there needs to be an ad telling grandparents that they shouldn't hug their grandkids, that they should look for permission in advance of that, seems absurd to most normal people.

"The Irish constitution is very clear that the family is the primary unit for teaching children and for raising children, and so to some extent this is kind of going beyond that."

However, the campaign has its defenders too.

Academic Dr Órfhlaith Campbell said it is not an attack on grandparents but instead aimed to highlight the importance of consent.

"The ad is highlighting differences in children's needs and the imp (sic) of consent. It is not campaigning against grandparents. Dear god in heaven!!!" she wrote on X, external.

An account named Danny Boy said it wasn't "discouraging grandparents from hugging children" but was "encouraging children to speak up" if they feel uncomfortable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c83vqn6zwrx0o

I remember this being a very active discussion a few years (decades?) ago so am surprised by this reaction.

It is a misdirected and belated reaction to the ongoing scandals of abuse against children by catholic priesthood, and others.

I haven't seen the ad, but I have no problem with the idea you ask if physical contact is ok before you offer physical contact.

Costs nothing to say "id like to give you a hug?" Or "hug?" (Allowing the other person to then met you on their terms)

Good practice really

Growing up I was made to kiss family, every time we saw them, because it was nice for the older relatives. I still remember some of the more unpleasant times now as an adult and I think it lead to me having some issues as a teenager with boyfriends and consent too.

now I have my own kids, some older relatives of theirs seem to think they can demand physical affection and I always stick up for them.

so I agree with this advert.

The government paid an NGO 1.3 million for that ad. It's a total joke. They are intent on destroying the family unit. If they really cared about consent they would be tackling the big issues, like girl's and women's rights to single sex spaces. How about women being allowed not consent to men in their sports, hospital wards, rape crisis centres, hostels etc.

I think it's an insult to people and grandparents in particular to assume we don't know how to interact with our own children. It's demonising the loving relationship that grandparents have with their grandkids. Luckily the ad was pulled after one day due to complaints.

I mean the ad is an insult..

I think the modern grandparents everywhere ASK for a hug.

If it is refused well fine not a big deal. Yes an insult.

Yes I was surprised. It is about the right to consent, even for a young child.

I remember this being an active campaign some years ago, and so was surprised at there being criticism of the ad.

It is to not only let children grow up knowing they have the right to be asked.

But also to remind adults they do no have rights to demand that children submit to them.

I completely understand why it is being criticised. It follows on from the government trying to change the meaning of the word 'family' in the referendum to mean 'any caregiver', which the Irish public strongly voted against. It smacks of another attempt to destroy the family unit. Why are they attacking and vilifying the natural relationship between grandparents and grandkids? It's awful to imagine my parents watching this, or my husband's mother and thinking this is what we think of them, that they might have so little sense in how to behave that they would violate their grandkids boundaries. It's common sense and the Irish public doesn't need to be treated like idiots.

What's more infuriating is that the government are highlighting this as an issue, when they are actively campaigning to eradicate women's and children's rights. We have no right to single sex spaces. Any man can declare himself a women.

Additionally, just today Ruth Coppinger brought forward a bill that would allow parents place an 'X' on children's birthcerts rather than indicate male or female to show a baby is 'intersex' or 'trans' or whatever the batshit crazy parents want to say. The child's consent is not taken into account here! The baby doesn't have any say in it at all. Enough is enough.

I think it's fine. It raises awareness that not everyone wants to be touched. And kids definitely need to be enabled to speak up against adults or they risk being harmed because of 'being polite'.

I think it would be fine to put out an ad suggesting that it is respectful to ask before hugging, and illustrate it with a child being hugged by their friend's parents or somesuch. However, choosing grandparents does feel like an attack on the family.

The next thing will be seeking consent to address a stranger as some might find it uncomfortable. Although I'm not quite sure how you'd ask for consent without speaking to them. Maybe they could have a lanyard lol.

It’s the sheer hypocrisy of the folk saying that consent needs to be taught and respected yet if the girl was saying she didn’t want to undress in front of a transwoman relative they’d be screaming that she was a bigot.

That's just ridiculous. This is about in a family setting those who are adults and should know better presuming that because they want to cuddle a grandchild, the child (and their parents) should comply.

What is wrong with saying "can I give you a hug". It is such an important step for children to know that nobody, not even grand parents get insist on their right to touch you.

Yes, surely these are the big issues in Ireland. Priorities, again. And to say the least, if I was an Irish woman (and that's a hell of a stretch!), I don't think I'd be convinced that the Irish government had my best interests at heart.

I think the ridiculous thing is assuming people need to be told this. And the type of person who does need to be told this is not going to be swayed by an ad anyway. What rankles most is the the sheer hypocrisy and audacity that the government think they can dictate to us how we should manage everyday relationships in families, when they won't even provide children with basic protection and safeguarding and there are people here who are fighting tooth and nail to try to protect children. The government clearly has no interest in keeping children safe from gender ideology, in fact it is being actively pushed in our education systems. This is another push from a different angle, all eroding the family unit.

Exactly!

Yes, there's a thread in AIBU about the conversion therapy bill that's reached the same conclusion.

Over enthusiastic loving grandparent who would listen to any concerns the child has - they're likely to be in the wrong! Tell them to stay away!

Strange bloke in the ladies. Don't say anything or you're in the wrong and a bigot!

How about FG/FF stop funding a useless NGO cadre and put money/effort into getting Tusla under control and functioning in a way that protects/benefits children.

Are all the posters here unaware that grandfathers sexually abuse children and start with grooming behaviours? This is likely something that happens just as (or more) frequently than trans people in bathrooms.

Why not introduce the idea of consent to a family unit? Children deserve to have a say whether they are embraced by someone else.

Exactly - seems totally bizarre on a feminist forum that there is so little understanding to the issue and instead indulging in whatabouterry.

Seems derailing is now the main intent on FWR threads.

65% of girls who have been the victim of child abuse the perpetrators are family members.

41% of boys who have been the victim of child abuse the perpetrators are family members.

And this is in the younger age group of under 12.

https://www.rapecrisisireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/RCNIStatisticalReportOnCrimesOfChildSexualViolence.pdf

This is part of the NSPCC's guidelines that have been in place for years. Although this is the UK, but assumed that in western Europe this was a shared concept in child safety. Or has this never been raised as an issue in Ireland.

Children should never be made to kiss or be kissed by someone or forced to have hugs, cuddles or sit on someone’s lap against their will. That includes family relations or family friends of all ages.
Talk to your children if they tell you or you see that they don’t want to kiss or be kissed and try and explain that you will help tell the other person.

Children may worry about offending older family members but it’s important that you reassure them that it’s always their choice.
You then may want to have a conversation with the family member or friend and explain how your child feels. You might explain that your child loves or likes them but at the moment doesn’t feel comfortable with physical signs of affection.

Try and find a way your child can still greet your family or friends that suits them such as giving a high five or shaking hands.

You could say to children:

• Your body belongs to you and it’s always your choice.
• You don’t have to kiss or cuddle – or be kissed and cuddled – by anyone you don’t want to or who makes you feel uncomfortable, including family members and friends. If you feel that way, you should talk to me about it.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/advice-for-families/pants-underwear-rule/pants-how-to-answer-questions/

Children need to learn what kind of physical touching is normal. Shaking hands, hugging grandparents.

Making them pin it all on their own immediate emotional response isn't actually that helpful.

And yes, you should hug grandma, even if you don't feel like it.

Doesn't the ad specifically illustrate using the grandmother though?

heaven forfend it's pointed out that the vast majority of sexual abuse carried out in families is perpetrated by men