Backlash against a hugging grandparents consent ad

[IwantToRetire]

(The ad, one of three, is part of a campaign called We-Consent, run by the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre (DRCC).)

Extract only:

A spokesperson for the Department of Justice said the videos were "produced by DRCC at low cost using volunteers and are not part of a government advertising campaign".

Meanwhile, Dr Eoin O'Malley, an associate professor at Dublin City University, said he believes the advert is the latest example of the state overreaching.

"You are seeing people pushing ideas that are beyond mainstream," he said.

O'Malley said that the importance of consent is reasonable to most people, but that the video is too extreme.

"The idea that there needs to be an ad telling grandparents that they shouldn't hug their grandkids, that they should look for permission in advance of that, seems absurd to most normal people.

"The Irish constitution is very clear that the family is the primary unit for teaching children and for raising children, and so to some extent this is kind of going beyond that."

However, the campaign has its defenders too.

Academic Dr Órfhlaith Campbell said it is not an attack on grandparents but instead aimed to highlight the importance of consent.

"The ad is highlighting differences in children's needs and the imp (sic) of consent. It is not campaigning against grandparents. Dear god in heaven!!!" she wrote on X, external.

An account named Danny Boy said it wasn't "discouraging grandparents from hugging children" but was "encouraging children to speak up" if they feel uncomfortable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c83vqn6zwrx0o

I remember this being a very active discussion a few years (decades?) ago so am surprised by this reaction.

Interesting, because your post struck me as showing the shallow as a puddle thinking behind this kind of ad.

After I was raped as a child (which I did not tell anyone about), I was uncomfortable being touched by anyone. Mostly my "shyness" was accepted, but I do remember some awkward forced hugs.
Always seek consent.

This touches on something that's interesting, which is that there is actually no evidence that this approach - teaching kids that they don't have to hug a grandparent if they don't feel like it, reduces the likelihood that they will fall prey to coercive sexual assaults or touching.

There are a lot of things like this. Campaigns that don't have any particular empirical backing.

Now - many things can be difficult to measure. But I think maybe in such cases its best to be wary of taking the thing as self evidently effective.

I have been trying to teach my children about not having to hug/kiss anyone if they don't want to but my partner was definitely brought up that it is just 'what you do' and always tells my children to kiss their grandma when they leave, even though he knows my son in particular does not kiss anyone (us included). The grandpa also has a habit of hanging onto my son e.g carrying him in his arms, or sat on his lap, even when my son is actively trying to walk away to get something which is really irritating. So there are definitely people who need this message and to learn body language cues. Just being related to someone doesn't mean you owe them physical touch.

No one is saying a hand shake or a hug is sexual abuse though. Yes any one can choose not to engage in any sort of touching or kissing, ever. You should think about why the notion that people, especially children, don't have to do physical touch that they don't want is angering you so much

The Irish government is against the nuclear family. Of all the possible ways they could have approached non consenual touching this is about as routed in queer theory as you could get.

What do you mean there's no evidence? Of course they can't controlled trials and control groups regarding children being sexual abused. What we do have evidence wise from people who have been abused is that groomers and abusers test small boundaries first to build compliance. Teaching children they have the right to refuse physical touch, even from family, even if the person sulks and thinks they're over reacting, breaks the compliance trap abusers depend on and when adults respect a child's boundaries it emphasises to other adults who are possible abusers that the child is protected and their boundaries respected.

Grandparents are not part of the "nuclear family".
Everything you said is nonsense. nonce sense.

It's an attack on natural family dynamics. I don't know how you can deny that. Grandparents are an important part of the family, and family is important to a lot of Irish people.

I've just read this thread all in one go from the starts, and I'm astonished how quickly it ran away with the idea that the ad is part of an Irish government campaign to destroy the nuclear family, or some such...

The ad is not a government ad, it is a Dublin Rape Crisis Campaign ad. It is one of a number of ads about consent, part of a whole campaign about different aspects of consent in different contexts.

This one was obviously - well, obvious to some - to emphasise that children have the right to express their own feelings about having physical contact with other people, even family.

That's something I've felt strongly about for decades - 'Give Uncle X a kiss!' and the child tries to squirm away but is pushed towards Uncle X anyway and made to give them a kiss - I've always said 'Maybe say a big hello to Uncle X instead if you'd prefer?' when I've seen that happen.

I agree that choosing a grandmother as the 'hugger' is questionable.
Obviously, sexual abuse is most likely to be carried out by a male relative.

But I think this misses the point - the ad is not saying 'Don't let Granny hug you because it's a gateway to her wanting to sexually abuse you', it's saying that you have the right to decide when and if you want to have physical contact with anyone.

If people don't like it, fair enough, and if they think the foregrounding of the grandmother is problematic, fair enough, but the idea that it's part of an evil devious state plot to destroy the nuclear family when it isn't even a government ad campaign - ah c'mon!

I'd like grandparents to stop touching children who do not want to be touched.
If that is an attack on "natural family dynamics" then I'm full on attacking that "natural family dynamic".

I was hoping that with Covid all this hugging nonsense would stop.

I don't think a girl should undress in front of any relative except mother, father and maybe grandmother and only then when necessary while they need supervision.

Getting undressed is very different from getting a quick hug from visiting close relatives.

Just as in England, Ireland has a big problem with undocumented men landing there who remain ignorant of, or choose to remain ignorant, of consensual sex.

The Irish government are aware of this. They wanted to tackle it.

They looked across the water and saw the storm that surrounded the English government, when they produced a pamphlet telling these men that a woman must say yest to sexual contact.

They scratched their heads, they scratched their balls, they scratched their armpits as they thought long and hard about how they too could address the problem ,without landing themselves in trouble as the English government had done.

The result was they decided to approach it in an oblique way, without mentioning the words, 'sex; or 'migrants.'

So, they chortled, let's warn everybody that nobody must be touched and we mean everybody-even grandparents.

Absolute insulting gobshites and anyone who thinks this has been put out for the sole reason of warning grandparents is as big an antichrist as the quislings in the Irish government.

Agree.

The only thing I would add though, is this ad seems to come from the same stable as "old people know how to save energy/cook food with few ingredients because they had to do it in the war", that is they seem to assume grandparents are older than they are. Today's grandparents were bringing up children from the eighties. Certainly in the very early 90s there were conversations around consent and children not having to hug everyone. I'd have thought most grandparents are aware of this already. Maybe it's different in Ireland.

Also who wants a hug from someone who doesn't want to hug them?

Or perhaps a Rape Crisis centre wanted to raise awareness around boundaries and consent for children given the evidence shows that being abused as a child increases the likelihood of experiencing sexual abuse again as an adult and most people are assaulted or abused by someone close and known to them. It's not hard to think why, given the attitude some have displayed on this thread of feeling entitled to physical affection from family members. It's in bad taste that you took this issue to talk about a completely separate issue as if Ireland doesn't have a history of institutional child abuse and child sexual abuse, this isn't a newly imported migrant problem.

It's not from the Irish government, so you can cool your jets.

I've encountered many children who find hugging difficult - notably abuse survivors and autistic kids. One of my sons is deaf and often doesn't hear people approaching him, so sudden physical contact can be a shock.

He's also autistic. When I hug him, he stands perfectly still with arms by his sides and leans slightly towards me. On one occasion when he badly wanted to be held, he called me over and leaned over slightly in mid-air so I knew what he wanted. He's a very gregarious Masters student, it's just that unlike his brothers he doesn't do hugs. His grandparents think he's cold.

This ad's a really good idea.

Well, the ad has got people talking about the issue which, presumably, was the intention. It has also angered a lot of people, which is either a complete surprise to the rape crisic centre or, perhaps, the collateral damage they were prepared to accept.

Well, if they say that, well then, that must of course be true and their paw prints all over it must be a delusion.

You-and others-may say and see what you like.

Those of us with a bit of wit will see and say the truth.

In any event, I believe that the daft twats have had to take it down, now that smoke was puffed up their arse and we all saw their high hole...well, those of us with wit did anyway.

It is interesting that half the people angry at the advert are saying it is stating the obvious/patronising/agist etc. And the other half are saying that it's nonsense because grandparents shouldn't need consent for a hug. Clearly there is some space for discussion there.

The thing about family members overstepping boundaries doesn't mean that all those that do are bad/paedophiles. The problem is that

1. Teaching the child they have to give grandma a kiss even if they don't want to makes it harder for the child to feel able to say no if creepy stepdad/teacher/priest asks for a kiss
2. The sort of grooming that happens in plain site is easier if everyone is already used to the idea that you don't have much say

Obviously telling actual abusers not to abuse doesn't work. This is for people that care.

Marvelously patronising so thanks for that.

So do fathers, uncles and brothers. I wonder why they chose grandmothers to make this particular point?

Wasn't the backlash after criticism from Jim O’Callaghan, Justice Minister in the <checks notes> Irish government?

I think they chose a grandmother (hugging a boy? I've not see the video) instead of a grandfather hugging a girl, because it is the edge case of non consensual touch that might be deemed by some to be acceptable.

May I try to make you feel the message more directly?
YOU know that uncomfortable feeling YOU get when someone touches YOU when YOU don't want to be touched? That. That's what we don't want children to feel.

That's what we don't want anyone to feel.

I'm not necessarily saying that it isn't needed because it's obvious, I'm just surprised that the feeling is grandparents are too old-fashioned to know about not forcing children to hug them, given their age and when they would have had children.

Anyway, I think this is pretty good

While keyboard warriors online are busy virtually recreating scenes from The Simpsons where the residents of Springfield and Shelbyville face off with pitchforks and torches over the fine print, what gets missed in all the noise is the important stuff. Here, it’s talking to young people about the importance of consent.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/consent-ad-controversy-7201722-Oct2026/