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Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #66

1000 replies

nauticant · 30/09/2026 12:59

TLDR version: Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing is currently being heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and is scheduled to end on Thursday 1 October 2026.

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against the Royal College of Nursing, against three senior managers who were witnesses in the employment tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.
The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in current and future proceedings.

There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: www.tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

Thread 63: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5581909-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-63 24 September 2026 to 27 September 2026

Thread 64: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583133-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-64 27 September 2026 to 29 September 2026

Thread 65: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583663-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-65 29 September 2026 to 30 September 2026

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31
fanOfBen · 01/10/2026 11:36

From TT:

Incomprehensible decision to only seek one side publicly makes sense if you accept the grip of this ideology.

R cannot publicly acknowledge or accept GC position.

NC Talking for a while. Shall we take a break ? Say ten minutes until quarter to.

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2026 11:36

janeszebra · 01/10/2026 11:35

Good, I hope the fuckers let me in!

Maybe email them I think they could be having issues with one room.

They couldn't see the many no sound comments earlier!

BettyBooper · 01/10/2026 11:38

Getting in about the reason why the case is being heard in Dundee also brought home the genuine risk to people challenging GI.

nebulousMoose · 01/10/2026 11:39

Heggettypeg · 30/09/2026 18:25

I've never understood why they give both. Would anybody be "she" as the subject of the sentence but "him" or "them" as the object of it?

I've never understood why they give any, never mind both. Maybe if you're swithering over the Who Am I Really question you might put She/Their or some other confusing label?

janeszebra · 01/10/2026 11:41

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2026 11:36

Maybe email them I think they could be having issues with one room.

They couldn't see the many no sound comments earlier!

Edited

I'm in room 4 apparently. Just sent an email. Not sure I've emailed the right address though as I just hit reply.

MarieDeGournay · 01/10/2026 11:42

Spellbinding, isn't it?

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2026 11:45

BettyBooper · 01/10/2026 11:38

Getting in about the reason why the case is being heard in Dundee also brought home the genuine risk to people challenging GI.

I'd forgotten about that, and was following it all at the time, so definitely a good decision to include.

Seriestwo · 01/10/2026 11:45

That’s a Masterclass in debate.

thank you, Naomi.

and TT, NW and all the C&Prs.

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2026 11:45

Judge is back

fanOfBen · 01/10/2026 11:46

There doesn't seem to be a problem with Nick Wallis' live tweeting presentation on X. I wonder whether it could be that whoever's tweeting for TT today isn't doing the usual thing re threading? If it's not that, there's something even odder than usual going on at X.

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2026 11:47

Naomi is being very kind right now!

StSpiridian · 01/10/2026 11:48

from Nick Wallis
NC
[we're back] NC got to par 12 of my subs - in light of wealth of doc evidence drawn attn to an open letter on 13 Sep this year - it is surprising R sees fit to deny it has adopted GI belief. Only surprising in a wholly sane world in which GI has taken hold so deeply in our institutions precisely because it's so pervasive - they may not see it in the same way as PM said it held sway so pervasively in the healthcare sector.

Three more things re R's adoption of GI belief. Shocking conduct of whoever advised Jennifer Melle to write a reflective note

InvisibleDragon · 01/10/2026 11:49

Just popping in to say thank you to everyone who is copy/pasting and proving analysis. I am constantly behind and trying to catch up to what is going on.

FanOfBen I hope you're feeling better today!

fanOfBen · 01/10/2026 11:50

From TT:

NC In light of this wealth of documentary evidence its surprising, or would be except for evidence of what GI does, but denials that it has a grip of GI on R? They seem to have denied adopting GI but perhaps precisely because so pervasive in Health Care and as you will be aware

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2026 11:52

Now on to Sandies specific complaints I think.

fanOfBen · 01/10/2026 11:53

From TT:

Note also treatment JM and evidence from Darlington nurses, unions have been as one on this as you will be aware.

Also PM surprising on the point that Wallace could behave as appallingly as he likes without being expelled from RCN. Failure to hold men to account for their misbehaviour

The respondents failure to hold these men to account symptomatic of GI belief.

A key to understanding provided by Pm and 2017 Fair Care doc. Before SC judgement it was practice in Helath Care, reflected a widepsread view across HC before SC in FWS. The whole of Health Care had

StSpiridian · 01/10/2026 11:53

from Nick Wallis
NC
Second is Bethany Hutchison's compelling account of Rs failure to support nurses looking for sss - in the same a way another darlington nurse was failed by her union.

And finally PM's surprising stance in relation to Freda Wallace - that he could seemingly behave as badly as he liked on soc med without being expelled from the RCN. The unwillingness to hold TiMs to account or to say no to them - which has parallels with NHS Fife and GU is symptmatic of GI. No need to say R has lied - key evidence is Fair Care for Trans Patients

NC I'm not going to take you to v many of these egs, as the j from the SC is shot through with recognition that bio sex has imp prac conseq - and it has consqs for people who hve to provide single sex spaces so for eg at p55 of the j under the heading "sep and sss"
there are carve outs which permit sex discrim where permitted [reads out j]

[Found it!] "These provisions are directed at maintaining the availability of separate or single spaces or services for women (or men) as a group – for example changing rooms, homeless hostels, segregated swimming areas (that might be essential for religious reasons or desirable for the protection of a woman’s safety, or the autonomy or privacy and dignity of the two sexes) or medical or counselling services provided only to women (or men) – for example cervical cancer screening for women or prostate cancer screening for men, or counselling for women only as victims of rape or domestic violence."

NC and it goes on at par 213: "213.
If sex has its biological meaning in this paragraph, then a service-provider can separate male and female users as obvious and distinct groups. For example, a homeless shelter could have separate hostels for men and women provided this pursued a legitimate aim, which might be the safety and security of women users or their privacy and dignity (and the same for male users).

By contrast, if sex means certificated sex, the service- provider would have to allow access to trans women with a GRC (in other words, biological males who are female according to section 9(1)) to the women’s hostel. The following practical difficulties would arise.

First, it would be difficult or impossible for the service-provider to distinguish between trans women with and without a GRC because, as we have explained, the two groups are often visually or outwardly indistinguishable.

Secondly and more fundamentally, it is likely to be difficult (if not impossible) to establish the conditions necessary for separate services for each sex when each group includes persons of both biological sexes. For example, it is difficult to envisage how the condition in paragraph 26(2)(a) (a joint service for persons of both sexes would be less effective) could ever be fulfilled when each sex includes members of the opposite biological sex in possession of a GRC and excludes members of the same biological sex with a GRC."

janeszebra · 01/10/2026 11:54

I'm in!!!!

BettyBooper · 01/10/2026 11:54

janeszebra · 01/10/2026 11:54

I'm in!!!!

Hooray!

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2026 11:55

janeszebra · 01/10/2026 11:54

I'm in!!!!

.

Happy Well Done GIF by Top Talent
StSpiridian · 01/10/2026 11:55

from Nick W

NC

NC another eg is at par 231 now under the heading "Single characteristic associations and charities" "A certificated sex meaning applied to these exceptions would make it impossible for any women’s association or charity – including, for example, a mutual support association for women who are victims of male sexual violence, a lesbian social association, a breast- feeding support charity – to be set up or to pursue a dedicated purpose which is directed at the needs of biological females.

To require such associations or charities to reconceive of their objects as targeting a group that does not correspond with their original aims, and to allow trans people with a GRC (of the opposite biological sex) to join would significantly undermine the right to associate on the basis of biological sex (or sexual orientation based on biological sex as we have discussed above)."

NC egs or obvs of that general nature outlining the catastrophic consequenes for the pract operation of sss (single sex services) is shot through the j (judgment)

NC takes J to par 217] "Likewise, a certificated sex interpretation of the conditions in paragraph 27(6) and (7) (that a person of one sex might reasonably object to the presence of a person of the opposite sex, and the physical contact provision) will not be capable of being fulfilled in practice.

Again, it is difficult to imagine how or in what circumstances it might be considered reasonable for a woman to object to members of the opposite sex (in condition (6)) where “the opposite sex” would include trans women without a GRC (who remain legally male) but not to “members of her own sex”.

This would arise if by operation of section 9(1) of the GRA 2004 the group of “members of her own sex” were to include biological men with a GRC, and so legally female who may be physically and outwardly indistinguishable from the former group of trans women without a GRC.

While many women in a female-only changing room or on a women-only hospital ward or in a rape counselling group might reasonably object to the presence of biological males, it is difficult to see how the reasonableness of such an objection could be founded on possession or lack of a certificate. This is so especially when the distinction does not track physical appearance or presentation, and the woman is unlikely to have any information about the GRC at the point at which her objection might be raised."

ILikeDungs · 01/10/2026 11:56

This is good

Boiledbeetle · 01/10/2026 11:56

I have to go out for a bit later. I will not be logging out!!!

janeszebra · 01/10/2026 11:56

Excellent analogy

BettyBooper · 01/10/2026 11:56

ILikeDungs · 01/10/2026 11:56

This is good

Yes, Naomi is setting this all out very clearly.

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