Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #65

[nauticant]

TLDR version: Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing is currently being heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and is scheduled to end on Thursday 1 October 2026.

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against the Royal College of Nursing, against three senior managers who were witnesses in the employment tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in current and future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: www.tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

Thread 63: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5581909-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-63 24 September 2026 to 27 September 2026

Thread 64: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583133-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-64 27 September 2026 to 29 September 2026

Am still reeling by the revelation that FredW is training to be a nurse.

Blackpool Vic does not have a good reputation, at least in the past it didn't.

My mum's colleague's daughter (MCD) worked there as a doctor.

My mum had a heart attack, and was admitted there. I don't know what treatment she had (I was 5 hours away and relied on my dad for comms) but it didn't involve surgery. She was 62 at the time.

MCD told us that, had she been 65+, Blackpool Victoria Hospital would not have treated her.

If that's where Patricia Marquis started it doesn't give me much hope - but perhaps her subsequent experiences have influenced her more positively. .

Yes!!! That!!!

I'm afraid Blackpool Victoria has an appalling record in term's of women's safety and staff cover ups.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy85lz5ppdo

Link to Mumsnet thread to avoid derailing this one

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404343-serious-life-ending-sexual-assault-on-a-stroke-ward?flipped=1&page=1

Oh gawd I am SO behind. Just got to the end of Gillian Tait's initial evidence (before she's been Naomi'd) and got the impression that things might have worked out better if she'd been dealing with it from the beginning, rather than Stuart Fraser. Am I about to change my opinion on that?

yep

I've struggled to follow today, it all just seems very messy. Hoping NW's daily round up helps!

But it is quite clear that this is a captured organisation, I just hope NC can evidence this.

I have been in meetings for most if the day so only had a couple of briefs skims but I read it as training nurses (on how to beee kiiind) rather than training to be a nurse.

The evacuation problem is important. I used to be a fire warden for a floor of a large building. When the fire alarm went off (ours was a bit temperamental) I had to go round the floor telling people to go and making sure it was clear and then report that to the fire brigade. There were always people who dragged their heels and argued. I could nip into the women’s and easily see if it was clear because of the door gaps. For the men’s I could ask one of the men to check.

The arguers were risking not only their own safety in the case of a fire but mine and the fire fighters by causing delay.

If I’d also had to struggle with locked doors in toilets without gaps that would have been a big problem for all concerned.

The building burnt down a few years after I left.

So some thoughts about GT today.

Reading both TT and NW I was struck first on DH going through all her comms and the endless requests for a telephone call as if SPs failure to do this made it impossible for GT to effectively help her.

How would she effectively rep someone with hearing or speaking issues? So much for we are soooo inclusive. Just a thought.

GT came across as being greatly cheered by hearing DH list all her efforts. Good girl vibes. Look at me I'm a gooooood girl.

She was equally gleeful in her I don't fuckin know answers. I've never heard of biological sex guv honest. Never the word TERF has been spake before me, my Lady.

Ah the stupidity of folk who think they are cleverer than NC.

What NC very effectively demonstrated, without GT having the slightest scoobie, was how impossible it would have been for her to rep SP without the least understanding of what she was facing.

Did no research to context of the incident
Did no reading re political discource
Completely unaware of ETs and EATs, all of which entirely relevant to how unions support staff.
Didn't even read the RCN magazine awfult.
Has no recollection of training.
Had no questions regarding training or advice or how further research might be warranted

How dare she think that is an ok background for a union rep addressing a member dealing with suspension and disciplinary processes.

How dare she think it is acceptable to demand SP explain everything to her over the phone without her so much as having to lift a single brain cell to find out what frames her position or what legal processes and decisions might support her position.

It would have belped, guv, if little miss SP had taken the time to explain everything to me. Yessirree. How could I be expected to understand if she didn't tell me how?

Never mind the fact that GT had no intention of actually listening to SP anyway. She wanted to use the conversation to shut her down. I suspect GT has had some success in shutting women down through phone calls. I suspect SP may have known that.

Even if GI had not been so explicitly enforcing GT and SF into the easy assumption that SP was the problem and lovely fragant DU not an issue at all the fact that they have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to find out more is so appalling. LAZY STUPID FUCKERS.

Call themselves union reps. Don't make me fuckin laugh.

Anyhoo, I think NC has made it very difficult for Sangster to accept DH's assertions that GT did all that was required and was only prevented from doing more by SPs lack of engagement.

But J's can sometimes be equally dense and captured, as we know all too well.

So so many are…

Example of denseness…

GT Not sure how it works
NC If free, RCN must be paying for them.
GT Yes

Also from her bio above, her "passion for fairness"

MCD told us that, had she been 65+, Blackpool Victoria Hospital would not have treated her.

Jesus Christ, the Brits are so ageist. No treatment for a MI post 65?! This country is a scary place to get old/er.

This afternoon's victim witness used the expression 'partnership workings'. I've never heard that term before but it sends shivers down my spine for some reason.

Also, she seems to have been banging on about how 'useful' a phone conversation would have been: useful for whom, I wonder?

I'm unclear about Fred Wallace (who isn't?) but is he training to be a nurse? Do we know this for sure? He was a patient transport driver and I believe he was 'let go' because he proved utterly unsuited to contact with other human beings, so please God they aren't allowing him to become a nurse.

Worked on my iPad for the previous SP tribunal. Sadly I can't remember what I had to do to get it to work ... I think some random touching the screen brought up a 'play' button or something.

NC RCN has gone further in contributing to culture in fear, difficult to raise qs
GT Never come across any members raising concerns.

Would you care to read that back, GT? Might the 2 points be related?

Ah, I see Fred has had a role in training nurses. Still totally wrong, but not so bad. They could just ignore him.

Yes. Tait would only deal with Sandie if she communicated in interpretive dance was the gist that I got.

So did I and she followed me, but that was before she was banned from Twitter in the pre-Musk days. When she was finally able to rejoin she had changed. Much more forceful, outspoken and intolerant of those who don't think like her. I must have said something she disagreed with and she instantly blocked me.

Flip it around - with 570,000 to 589,000 members (google) is it likely that none will be gender critical?

I agree. As a teacher I was timed and had to clear my science section in 5 minutes. I could do this as I could check the boys and girls toilet blocks were clear in seconds.

When I spoke to the Fire Brigade Union about this they seemed interested until I mentioned the problem with new ‘inclusive’ (ie mixed sex) design. Not inclusive in terms of disability or sex.

Little technical bit:
Toilet blocks are traditionally fitted with visual and auditory fire alarms on the ceiling of the washroom section that can be seen from open topped cubicles. However, individual rooms and cubicles, that are full height, may not have individual Visual Alarm Devices . Toilets are more likely to have blind people and deaf people left behind in an emergency evacuation if they are unaware they need to escape. The Fire Industry Association state that Visual Alarm Devices (VADs) should be installed in each toilet cubicle if the
design is floor to ceiling. To not install VADs in these situations would be subject to an agreed and justified variation to clause 17.2b) of BS 5839-1:2017. Approved document M requires that reasonable provision be
made for people to gain access to and use a building and its facilities. In particular, it says that fire alarms in sanitary accommodation should emit a visual and audible signal.

There are instances of deaf people not knowing the building has been evacuated as they were using a toilet that had no alarm.

My stepdad had a memory clinic assessment in September 2022. He was somewhat stumped by the second question, but they accepted 'oh, I don't know ... that woman' as good enough in the circumstances.

I think my two takeaways from today are

• omg these people are supposed to advise members on their rights, and they have no clue, and no shame about having no clue, what those rights are
• honestly quite a lot of NC's questionning today was just annoying to watch and I'm sure even more annoying to experience. I'm guessing that a lot of it is that she needs to introduce into evidence a lot of stuff about how captured RCN is, e.g. the merch and Freda W's training and the flag, but she can only do that if she asks a witness about it. So she asks the RCN witnesses about this stuff, even though, they rightly feel, it often isn't really much to do with them.

With my fan of Ben hat on, I do feel one of the things he does better(? more clearly from a listener's perspective) is syntax. Naomi often seems to tie her sentences in knots and confuse the witnesses about what she's asking, quite separately from whether they want to answer. I need to pay attention next time I hear Ben, but memory is saying that the key difference is that Naomi's characteristic question goes "question, long content about which this is a question, ?" whereas Ben's goes "Long content, question ?". E.g. Naomi might go

Can you agree with me that, even though XYZ, the fact that RCN ABCs gives the impression that PQR?

where I think Ben might more characteristically go

Even though XYZ, I suggest the fact that RCN ABCs gives the impression that PQR. Can you agree?

Anyone else think so? If so, is there a reason? Is she just trying to be crystal clear that there is a question, not just a statement? Is she deliberately trying to wrong-foot the witnesses?

Thank you for your kind comments. I'm ok - currently horizontal and planning a lot of sleep.

@fanOfBen Hope you are fully recovered.

You might be thinking of Tarquin (S Brooks) who claimed that he was studying nursing at the same uni as Caroline Farrows daughter