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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some clarity in how the trans movement became so embedded, so preeminent

1000 replies

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 22/09/2026 13:17

Despite being called a conspiracist here by a TRA, actually I work very hard to continually interrogate my thought processes, and not fall into easy generalisations etc.
So, I was reading Róisín Michaux and her fascinating conversation with someone high up in HIV funding, and the push in the last 20 years is to get everyone in the tent on retrovirals, meaning reaching out to not just gays and addicts, but sex workers (incl trans) and critically, the "third genders" who have migrated to the West in large numbers to end up as sex workers. And the decision was made to go for maximum anti stigmatization, which means zero messaging on personal behaviour, and critically deciding to accept these men as women. Don't blame them, get more onside.
Guess who has to move aside, and accept the messaging on health grounds that biological men can be women? Made even worse by the increase in HIV in European women who are the partners of men who use the services of these "third genders".
Then yesterday I read the amazing post from Hellofabore about how for 30 years plus, the sports authorities including IOC and FIFA decided to make total inclusion the policy, phasing out gender testing, primarily to allow the male DSDs from Africa mainly to be included, as they were IDd as female at birth, and the cruelty to deny they're still female is wrong.
Again, the overwhelming need is to not stigmatize these individuals. Of course a huge group (we know who) are stigmatized for objecting to losing sports opportunities.
And then back to Róisín Michaux again, her illuminating the revolution in psychiatric medicine, where men back in the day were diagnosed with transvestic disorder, a pure paraphylia, again to stop judging and be more inclusive, underwent massive de-stigmatisation and de-pathologisation, from paraphylia, to dysphoria, now to common all garden "sexual health category".
Three enormous areas where the drive to include men, to destigmatise their plight, to bring them in from the cold, couldn't happen in a vacuum. Society organised along sex-based lines couldn't be simply recategorised, no, a large population group (51% XX) was expected to move over, make their definition porous, extend the collective hand of kindness and inclusion, to this hardcore of men who were deemed most at risk, and needing most help.
At the same time, this blurring of definitions and imposed inclusivity spread from sport and medicine to law and education, the most motivated men worked hard to get the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book, and via Stonewall culture, "social training" and the "trans child" escalated as concepts and then real world consequences as noone in polite society other than a very brave few said anything.
So now we have developing nations male DSDs and "third genders", socially incorporated transvestites/transsexuals, and queer culture first world transgenders in the mix, a political culture in the West frozen into aquiescence and policy drift, and the only light of realism and sanity, an army of women fighting back, with amazing results re SC ruling, banishing self ID into the long grass, and medical and sports bodies tacking back to sanity.
But reading the almost scary analogousness of how health brought in trans and third genders at the expense of women, sport brought in male DSDs at the expense of women, psychiatry brought in transvestites from the cold at the expense of women, you can then see how the most motivated men got the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book to turbo charge the social trans/trans child revolution.
For me, I can now see the past as it travels into the future.

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CassOle · 29/09/2026 19:06

And every new word that is used to mean 'adult human female' will be targeted by the men who want to be women, and they will push to have them too.

So, it is best to defend woman and female.

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 19:09

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2026 18:59

Ah, the duplicity of the Genderist.

People know we are women because for most people that is still the word for an adult human female.

But if Genderists get what they want, which is general acceptance that trans women are women, people will no longer consider us women just because we are obviously adult, human and female, because that won't be what the word means anymore.

We will still be the same people, juat as adult, just as human, just as female. But we won't be "women" any more. And the understanding of our experiences now will be disconnected from each other and from our history because the language that connects them has gone.

It is like having a man with an axe chopping down the supporting poles of a bridge, and when people say "FFS stop chopping the bridge or it will fall down" he laughs and says "Fall down? What are you talking about? You are literally standing on it!"

This is just a crackers fantasy though isn't it? about how society, words, history will collapse because of the bad boogie man "Genderist". It has nothing to do with the world we are living in at all.

Rollingpinofdoom · 29/09/2026 19:13

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 19:09

This is just a crackers fantasy though isn't it? about how society, words, history will collapse because of the bad boogie man "Genderist". It has nothing to do with the world we are living in at all.

So what word are you going to use for adult human female? Remember, you can’t use woman, as thst is the word for women and some males, so what do you call an adult human female….

murasaki · 29/09/2026 19:13

Lacksie, given you believe Dr Upton, for example is a woman, and I am a woman, what do we have in common that means that the same word can describe us?

Please don't refer to hair, make up or clothes.

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 19:14

Rollingpinofdoom · 29/09/2026 19:13

So what word are you going to use for adult human female? Remember, you can’t use woman, as thst is the word for women and some males, so what do you call an adult human female….

So what word are you going to use for adult human female

Woman. And so does and will everyone else.

CassOle · 29/09/2026 19:15

What word are you using for Dr Upton (who is an adult human male)?

TheKeatingFive · 29/09/2026 19:15

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 19:09

This is just a crackers fantasy though isn't it? about how society, words, history will collapse because of the bad boogie man "Genderist". It has nothing to do with the world we are living in at all.

How do you think it will benefit society at large to redefine women to mean not the sex class, but a feeling in a persons head?

Think about law, safeguarding, data collection, medicine and so on.

Rollingpinofdoom · 29/09/2026 19:16

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 19:14

So what word are you going to use for adult human female

Woman. And so does and will everyone else.

Nooo. Because you think that includes some males. So no, unfortunately not. Unless of course you are saying TIM are not women and therefore the only person who can be a woman is an adult human female? So TIM should stay out of all women’s spaces as they are not women. I totally agree.

TheKeatingFive · 29/09/2026 19:17

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 19:14

So what word are you going to use for adult human female

Woman. And so does and will everyone else.

But you are also including men in that definition. So you cannot use it as a word to describe Adult human females.

Just as I can’t use the word sheep to describe sheep, but also some pineapples.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2026 19:18

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 19:14

So what word are you going to use for adult human female

Woman. And so does and will everyone else.

So you are comfortable that to avoid confusing two completely different things:

No one should be using the same word "woman" for trans identifying men anymore

No one will suggest that "women"'s spaces, rights etc are anything other than pertaining to and exclusively for female bodied people

Great!

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2026 19:21

Loving @Lacksie 's work on this thread BTW. The gaps where (s)he doesn't dare answer are almost as illuminating as the times (s)he does.

Still waiting for some practical examples of when to to split things by gender rather than sex. I'm sure they will be coming any minute now.

BlueLegume · 29/09/2026 19:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BlueLegume · 29/09/2026 19:31

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2026 19:21

Loving @Lacksie 's work on this thread BTW. The gaps where (s)he doesn't dare answer are almost as illuminating as the times (s)he does.

Still waiting for some practical examples of when to to split things by gender rather than sex. I'm sure they will be coming any minute now.

To be honest @FlirtsWithRhinos I am assuming they are still doing the work presentation/school run they were doing yesterday along with catching up on the SP thread whilst being busy working all day.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 29/09/2026 19:37

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 17:33

One wonders why women are not allowed an equivalent boundary when Genderists redefine us.

Of course you are allowed that boundary. But no one has told you you are wrong or deluded or lying or ridiculous for saying you are a woman. So you don't actually have a problem here.

How does a man become a woman? What is required to do so?

BlueLegume · 29/09/2026 19:49

My comment about Queer Theory has been deleted. Understand I used an adjective which described it very negatively. Apologies for that. I guess my concerns for what’s next inclusivity wise does concern that age can be something identity as.

Apologies all round for my inappropriate wording.

Heggettypeg · 29/09/2026 19:55

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 19:14

So what word are you going to use for adult human female

Woman. And so does and will everyone else.

But they will only do that because they haven't really swallowed the idea that gender identity trumps sex. If they had, they wouldn't know (according to their view of things) whether an adult human female was a "woman" or not unless she told them.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 29/09/2026 19:55

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 18:40

Nobody is telling you that- all of this is entirely in your head.
Everyone recognises you are a woman because of your body.

But not everyone is exactly the same as you. And that's ok too.

And everyone recognises that my son is a man because of his body. Even, I suspect, the gender identitarians, but they insist that everyone has to pretend otherwise, or we are bigots.

Everyone, without exception, relates to me as they see me, not as I see me. This is true regarding everyone. Your friends relate to you as they see you, not as you see yourself, even if they pretend that you are something you cannot be. It is not possible for me to relate to my son as anyone other than my son, because that is what he is. Using a female-coded name and the pronouns 'she', 'her' etc, causes cognitive dissonance, because for anyone who has not embraced the new religion, pronouns refer to someone's sex, not how much they conform to stereotypes. So if my son puts on a dress, why am I under enormous pressure to pretend that he is female?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/09/2026 19:57

BlueLegume · 29/09/2026 19:49

My comment about Queer Theory has been deleted. Understand I used an adjective which described it very negatively. Apologies for that. I guess my concerns for what’s next inclusivity wise does concern that age can be something identity as.

Apologies all round for my inappropriate wording.

Wait. We're meant to be positive about queer theory now? Well that's a new one.

Helleofabore · 29/09/2026 19:58

The very fact that for a period of time, any male athlete could compete in the Olympics as a female person if they had fulfilled some regulatory conditions is evidence of negative impact to female people based on the acquisition of the very female language that has been denied on this thread.

But apparently any discussion is a ‘moral panic’.

That term really is a short cut to signaling that women explaining the negative impact are to be ignored.

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 20:01

BlueLegume · 29/09/2026 19:49

My comment about Queer Theory has been deleted. Understand I used an adjective which described it very negatively. Apologies for that. I guess my concerns for what’s next inclusivity wise does concern that age can be something identity as.

Apologies all round for my inappropriate wording.

I didn't see what it was so wasn't me that reported

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 20:14

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 29/09/2026 19:55

And everyone recognises that my son is a man because of his body. Even, I suspect, the gender identitarians, but they insist that everyone has to pretend otherwise, or we are bigots.

Everyone, without exception, relates to me as they see me, not as I see me. This is true regarding everyone. Your friends relate to you as they see you, not as you see yourself, even if they pretend that you are something you cannot be. It is not possible for me to relate to my son as anyone other than my son, because that is what he is. Using a female-coded name and the pronouns 'she', 'her' etc, causes cognitive dissonance, because for anyone who has not embraced the new religion, pronouns refer to someone's sex, not how much they conform to stereotypes. So if my son puts on a dress, why am I under enormous pressure to pretend that he is female?

Edited

I don't think you need to believe he is female, and the cognitive dissonance you experience is entirely understandable- you gave birth to a son and everything about how you see and relate to him has been fundamentally shaped by that since as long as he has been in this world.
However, if you want to have a relationship with your child, it may help to approach what your child is telling you with curiosity, rather than assuming it must come from stereotypes or ideology.
You don’t have to agree on a theory of sex and gender to recognise how deeply this matters to them. . That alone seems reason enough to reconsider how you speak to and about them.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 29/09/2026 20:25

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 20:14

I don't think you need to believe he is female, and the cognitive dissonance you experience is entirely understandable- you gave birth to a son and everything about how you see and relate to him has been fundamentally shaped by that since as long as he has been in this world.
However, if you want to have a relationship with your child, it may help to approach what your child is telling you with curiosity, rather than assuming it must come from stereotypes or ideology.
You don’t have to agree on a theory of sex and gender to recognise how deeply this matters to them. . That alone seems reason enough to reconsider how you speak to and about them.

You demonstrate with every reply that you know very little about our situation and what has led up to where we are now. May I advise you to stop trying to give advice about a situation and people you do not understand.

ArabellaScott · 29/09/2026 20:29

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/09/2026 19:57

Wait. We're meant to be positive about queer theory now? Well that's a new one.

Maybe time for another round of Queer Theory Jeopardy.

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CassOle · 29/09/2026 20:30

Why should I have to pretend that a man who is an autogynophile (please note that I am not naming any individual here) is female? I don't want to participate in his paraphilia, thanks.

PS. Queer theory is a theory, and we should be allowed to be critical of it, especially as it has some very dark elements.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2026 20:31

Lacksie · 29/09/2026 20:14

I don't think you need to believe he is female, and the cognitive dissonance you experience is entirely understandable- you gave birth to a son and everything about how you see and relate to him has been fundamentally shaped by that since as long as he has been in this world.
However, if you want to have a relationship with your child, it may help to approach what your child is telling you with curiosity, rather than assuming it must come from stereotypes or ideology.
You don’t have to agree on a theory of sex and gender to recognise how deeply this matters to them. . That alone seems reason enough to reconsider how you speak to and about them.

Out of interest, would you feel the same if the son was expressing racist feelings?

I don't mean racial supremcy type, but let's say, oooh, wanting to live as a Japanese person when they are not Japanese because they think they "feel more like a Japanese person than a British person"

Let's say this is your son Barry. He tells you actually he is Japanese. In fact, he has always been Japanese. He is changing his name to Satō Haruto and wants to be referred to with Japanese honourifics. He starts dressing in his idea of Japanese dress and adopting what he thinks is a Japanese way of behaving (not speaking though, he doesn't actually speak Japanese. But he puts on a sort of Japanesey accent... ). He confidentally gives his opions on Japanese politics as a Japanese person despite never having been to Japan.

Now, imagine a Japanese friend of yours dropped round unexpectedly....would you introduce your son to them as Japanese? If not, why not?

Oh, while you are answering this, please do feel free to also give those practical examples of when it's approriate to segreate by Gender rather than Sex. I'm sure you have some great ones, super convincing. I am actually quite looking forward to you putting me in my place with some stone cold solid suggestions!

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