Child raped in toilet by Transwoman

[Letterleaf]

Hang on. I thought trans women in female toilets were never a threat. In fact a trans person at my work told me this never happened…

www.dailymail.com/news/article-16132895/German-transgender-policewoman-rapes-14-year-old-girl-stash-child-porn.html

The mother of this poor girl thought her trans friend was lovely and not at all rapey.

So, you say they enjoy having a penis and testicles - just like normal men, I suppose. So, what do these men claim to be dysphoric about? It sounds like you're saying they aspire to be drag queens, essentially.

ETA because a lot of women don't 'perform' femininity and don't wear make up or wear spinny skirts.

You'd be assuming wrong, then.

No man can genuinely feel like a woman, and thus they cannot genuinely want to be a woman, because they don't know what being a woman is like.

My ex was dysphoria because he was a gay man with very severe internalised homophobia and an extreme liking shall we say for Women’s clothes, the “sluttier” the better. He wasn’t dysphoric about his penis. All he was concerned about was growing big boobs.

WHO no longer considers gender dysphoria a mental health condition. Also, personally, I believe each person has the right to do their own body as they wish. Anyone who is willing to go through with this major surgery has to be pretty desperate and I think most of us can’t begin to understand it.

“ICD-11 has redefined gender identity-related health, replacing outdated diagnostic categories like ICD-10’s “transsexualism” and “gender identity disorder of children” with “gender incongruence of adolescence and adulthood” and “gender incongruence of childhood” respectively. Gender incongruence has been moved out of the “Mental and behavioural disorders” chapter and into the new “Conditions related to sexual health” chapter. This reflects current knowledge that trans-related and gender diverse identities are not conditions of mental ill-health, and that classifying them as such can cause enormous stigma.”

https://www.who.int/standards/classifications/frequently-asked-questions/gender-incongruence-and-transgender-health-in-the-icd

What’s the difference between men pretending to be women and men pretending to be men pretending to be women?

A huge error and politically motivated.

I believe it's sensible and appropriate for the law to place limits on what people can do with their own bodies, as it already does in many cases, because individuals don't always do what's in their own best interests, and there can be knock on effects for the rest of us, especially in the UK because the NHS is entirely funded by taxpayers and doesn't have unlimited funds to mop up the damage. Social services are underfunded and overstretched and we don't need people creating more work for them because of some ill-considered decisions that lead them to be unable to care for themselves or others independently.

In the UK it is not legal for an individual to sell one of their organs to be transplanted into other people's bodies. We can't get tattoos or piercings as children or young teens. Certain drugs are banned because of the social and medical damage they cause, and rules are in place around production, purchase and consumption of other drugs such as alcohol and nicotine. There are (in my view inadequate) constraints to make surrogacy legal only in certain controlled circumstances, and there are other laws that control the operation of fertility clinics. You can't get a pregnancy terminated simply on request. You can't go to a surgeon and instruct them to remove a body part because you have an irrational belief that it doesn't belong to you. You can't give consent to another person to inflict grievous bodily harm on you - this came out of a nasty case where a circle of men were doing this very thing and the law had to try to work out if the perpetrators could be prosecuted, given that the victims had literally asked them to do what in any other circumstances would be a clear cut case of criminal violence.

So no, I don't think people should be able to go to a doctor and instruct them to modify their hormones and body parts on request. There are known serious consequences for health to having these drugs and surgeries. The evidence that people are happier, mentally healthier and lead more fulfilled lives after these treatments is just not there, rather the contrary.

Yes I agree of course with what you say about alcohol, nictotone and tatoos.

Abortions are legal in the UK though. I know there’s a bit more to it that simply requesting it but you can request one and have one legally.

I do think if an adult wants gender reassignment surgery, they should have it, assuming many caveats such as they fully understand the risks, can proove that to those treating them and have lived their life as the opposite sex for a considerable amount of time.

i think whether the NHS should fund it or not is a separate matter.

..can prove that to those treating them and have lived their life as the opposite sex for a considerable amount of time.

What is the definition of "living their life as the opposite sex"? What exactly are the criteria? A list would be helpful

How about a person asking for a gastric sleeve when they're not overweight?

Do you think there are any ethical questions about cosmetic surgeons who continue to perform surgery on patients who appear addicted to continued procedures?

What is the definition of "living their life as the opposite sex"? What exactly are the criteria? A list would be helpful

This is from the government website about how to get a GRC:

Evidence of living in your gender for the last 2 years
You’ll need copies of evidence to show that you’ve been living in your affirmed gender for the last 2 years.
Each piece of evidence should contain at least one of the following that matches up with your affirmed gender:

• a name
• a title, like ‘Mr’ or ‘Miss’
• a gender marker, like ‘male’ or ‘female’

There are no other specific requirements for this evidence, but try to find:

• evidence from different points over the 2 years, with roughly 1 piece of evidence for every 3 months
• at least one piece of evidence from the last 2 or 3 months
• evidence from a variety of different sources

The evidence can come from before you were diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Examples of what you can send in include good quality photocopies or photographs of:

• your driving licence
• your passport
• identity cards, like workplace IDs, student IDs, railcards, health insurance cards, library cards or supermarket loyalty cards
• letters from solicitors, accountants, doctors, dentists or employers
• bank statements
• payslips, P60s and P45s
• benefit letters
• tax letters and documents, including council tax
• credit reports
• confirmation letters that you’re on the electoral register
• student loan statements
• utility bills, such as internet bills
• rental agreements
• academic certificates and documents

[end of quote]

So, it's utility bills, basically. They can't ask for proof of medical treatment, obviously, because Garçon & Nicot v France. But they also don't ask for proof of dressing up. However, having medical treatment and dressing up could presumably assist the diagnosis of gender dysphoria which is also required.

Yes. Presumably for any surgery, cosmetic or otherwise, the surgeon needs to consider whether that is in the patient’s best interests, the risk of harm vs benefit and balance that against the right the patient has to determine what happens to their own body.

Utility bills 😂

Who knew?

If they really want to be a woman maybe they should have their penis removed ?

For a gastric sleeve op on a person of normal weight, the risk/benefit balance would be far too skewed towards risk.

I don’t think you can compare that with gender reassignment - even though it is very risky and irreversible surgery, doctors around the world clearly have a strong enough case for the benefits otherwise they would get into trouble for doing it.

I think this is an assumption you’ve made.

The evidence does not, to my mind support that.

You could have said the same about lobotomies. Just because they were being done doesn’t mean there was a strong enough case for the benefits.

Personally I think both kinds of ‘bottom surgery’ seem to be full of complications, don’t appear to deliver any kind of meaningful results, I’d have huge reservations about these.

Breast implants for men don’t appear to be dangerous, so I wouldn’t object on those grounds. If men want them and are prepared to pay for them, I’d be okay with that.

Hormone therapy, there seems to be growing evidence of the harm of giving women testosterone. This seems to be much more problematic than giving men estrogen, but I might be wrong.

I’d make decisions procedure by procedure

If male to female rape is committed then the headline should read 'man dressed as a woman raped a young girl'

I am making an assumption that doctors have accurately assessed the risk/benefit of ‘bottom’ surgery? Yes. They are trained professionals and this is at the upper end of complexity so they have spent many hours discussing this in general and assssing each case individually. I think this is hard for anyone other than another doctor to judge due to the level of complexity. I work on the assumption that the vast majority of doctors work in an ethical manner and are prepared to reconsider when new scientific evidence comes to light.

This reminds me somewhat of discussions about vaccines - highly trained and experienced doctors the world over say they work , and then people with no relevant qualifications or experience come along saying they have done some research and found out vaccines are not safe after all and that doctors are lying. No!

do you have any relevant qualifications?

I think if you’d looked into what’s gone on in WPATH you would not be so sanguine.

Bottom surgery in particular there seems to be a problem with follow up. Lots of stories on X/Reddit about people being left with significant complications, but surgeons not seeing it as their job to help them. It’s really very scary.

A huge amount of this medicine is not even promoted as ‘evidence based’ any more. They don’t use these words because they can’t. They talk about ‘consensus based’ instead. I don’t know about you, but I know how consensus can be arrived at and I don’t think that’s anything like sufficient.

I appreciate we all want to believe that the medical profession have s the evidence in their back pocket and are proceeding on an evidence backed basis, but sadly I don’t think that’s true. And there is plenty of form in the medical profession for calling things wrong.

Well in America at least it seems to be treated the same way as other types of cosmetic surgery. The patient gets what the patient asks for.

I don’t think vaccine point is a particularly valid comparison. This is a very new branch of medicine that we already know is fraught with problems around evidence and follow up. The Cass report was very clear about that.

For example, I don’t think people realise that puberty blockers have always been prescribed off label in the UK for this issue.

They have never gone through proper trial to prove their benefits and safety for gender affirming care.

Well, quite. Men are always not rapey until they are. Sometimes if they drug you it can take 20 years before you even find out about it.