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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tell me you don't know what a cult is...

402 replies

Seethlaw · 14/08/2026 09:23

... without telling me you don't know what a cult is.

I grew up in a cult-ish church. It had some very unpleasant aspects to it indeed. The very concept of the GC movement as a cult utterly baffles me, and irritates me quite a bit, I must admit.

Where is our Leader? Some say JKR is that, even though she obviously didn't create the movement, since she joined it after it already existed. Okay, but then where is the cult of personality? Where is the hanging onto her every word? Where is the compulsory study of her life? Where is the regular and compulsory show of support of her as our leader?

What are the specific beliefs that random people outside the movement don't believe? "Men can't become women and vice versa" is not such a belief, since loads of people who would never call themselves GC also believe it. So what are our specific beliefs?

What is the rite of entry into the movement? How does one know that they themselves or someone else is a member of the movement?

Where are the big gatherings where the leaders speak The Word? Where are the regular gatherings where the members reinforce each other's beliefs?

What are the demands made of the members? Where are the compulsory meetings? Where are the financial requirements? Where are the specific behaviours we have to adhere to?

Where are the punishments for leaving the group? How do you even know you've left at all? And where are the stories of abuse and control told by the former members?

I could go on forever.

Accusing GC people of belonging to a cult is just as ridiculous and offensive as claiming, for example, that there's a trans genocide going on. It's deliberately appropriating the real suffering of other people to make a completely false and unsupportable point because there's no actual valid point to make. It's utterly reprehensible and shameful.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
DialSquare · 16/08/2026 07:52

BackToLurk · 16/08/2026 07:47

Oh thank god it wasn’t just me.

ETA: it was once an Only Connect question.

Ship of Theseus, Sugababes, George Washington's axe, Trigger's broom.

Edited

I remember that question. I didn’t get the connection until Trigger’s Broom
came up!

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/08/2026 08:23

I know Ship of Theseus & George Washington's axe but I'll have to DuckDuckGo the other 2. 😁

Done - Triggers Broom it is from now on. 😂

JamesKirkupReviewWritersFund · 16/08/2026 08:46

I imagine that membership of the Sugababes is determined by lottery draw like the premium bonds - instead of getting a few quid, you’re told to get learning the lyrics to “About you Now” pretty damn quick

BackToLurk · 16/08/2026 08:59

JamesKirkupReviewWritersFund · 16/08/2026 08:46

I imagine that membership of the Sugababes is determined by lottery draw like the premium bonds - instead of getting a few quid, you’re told to get learning the lyrics to “About you Now” pretty damn quick

I’ve learned Push The Button, just in case I’m next.

Seethlaw · 16/08/2026 10:54

Clusterfuckular · 15/08/2026 22:11

Buddhist teachings are underpinned by the concept of 'nonself'. Anatta. (In contrast to Hindu concept of 'atman' or a soul that persists).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatt%C4%81

Huh, very interesting! Thank you.

Second, states Collins, the Suttas apply the doctrine to deny self of any person, treating conceit to be evident in any assertion of "this is mine, this I am, this is myself" (etam mamam eso 'ham asmi, eso me atta ti).

I obviously won't pretend to even begin to understand it, but this concept seems directly opposed to the very foundational principle of gender ideology that we have a gender identity, and a true self that we have a right to fully expose. Makes me wonder if there are any trans Buddhists...

One with "great self", state the early Buddhist Suttas, has a mind which is neither at the mercy of outside stimuli nor its own moods, neither scattered nor diffused, but imbued with self-control, and self-contained towards the single goal of nibbana and a 'Self-like' state.

Sounds great! Not to be pushed this way or that way, whether by what's going on in the outside, and by our own happenings inside... I understand why so many people are so taken by Buddhism.

OP posts:
Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · 17/08/2026 14:57

Shedmistress · 15/08/2026 17:22

Pointing out that online forums can breed extreme, totalizing mindsets with certain trends is a basic observation of digital culture that applies across the entire political spectrum, not a smear of GC views.

You are though are you not, specifically applying it to FWR users? Of which you are one, so applying it to yourself?

Why do some of here feel the need to keep lumping everyone in together on FWR when I cannot have been more specific I was talking about a vocal subset of people who post in a style that is what I was describing. I'm able to read words for what they say instead of applying it to myself where it doesn't fit so no I wouldn't apply it to me. I have said repeatedly I am not talking about GC views or FWR as a forum, I'm talking literally about the exact behaviours I described which funnily enough people just keep showing good examples of.

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · 17/08/2026 15:02

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/08/2026 17:34

Thanks for confirming your motivation was as I suspected, the need to scold women for tone. Thanks for your concern about this space, which is as much mine as it is yours. Engage or don’t, but you don’t get to control how others do.

Pointing out the irony of your post isn't tone policing. Nor is it controlling what you do. Notice I'm not "engaging" but throwing a bunch of random and unevidenced accusations at you or "scolding" you for rationally sharing an opinion. You might find not being chronically online means you actually fully read a post and responded Nd to the substance of it instead of inserting the words you wish something said.

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · 17/08/2026 15:04

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/08/2026 17:39

Yes, most forums do this, not just the feminist board of Mumsnet. So really what is your beef here?

Most forums do what exactly? Accuse posters repeatedly of writing something they didn't say and then not engage when their led back to the actual words they were responding to? They usually don't actually, it doesn't make a very good discussion .

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · 17/08/2026 15:13

PriOn1 · 15/08/2026 22:25

‘Declaring my post "laughably bad"’

And yet I didn’t do that, did I? You can’t stop lying.

I declared the point I was commenting on to be laughably bad, not the post.

As you are apparently unable to read what I wrote, responding further is pointless.

Distinguishing between calling my post 'laughably bad' versus calling the only point you read before responding 'laughably bad' is a heroic level of hair-splitting. That’s a lot of drama over semantics just to dodge the actual subject, but enjoy your exit! What an enlightening contribution!

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · 17/08/2026 15:20

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/08/2026 18:03

This is reminiscent of all the self important whinging before the board split. This is the sex and gender discussion section of the feminist board of Mumsnet. It’s not people’s entire lives, even the prolific posters. People have a range of styles, some more caustic than others. The internet is not a polite place when people say silly things so if you do it’s liable to be a bruising experience anywhere. Any educational value of this forum is a (welcome) bonus, but it’s not why most people post on a talk board.

The majority of people whining about how women discuss feminism online are MRAs and TRAs. Often you couldn’t get a fag paper between them.

Treating the internet as an arena for fighting rather than a space for discussion is the core problem here. There’s a massive difference between being caustic with actual substance and just being a troll hiding behind 'internet roughness.' .But concluding that anyone who critiques this dynamic must secretly be an 'MRA or TRA' is a remarkable self-own, thanks for demonstrating live that any internal critique is instantly branded as some kind of enemy infiltration when actually some of us who see this for what it is know it's exactly the style and tactics used by MRAs to harass women and feminists online for ages, and think there's nothing to gain from women adopting incel- bro internet culture.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/08/2026 15:33

Advanced search is a very useful tool to see what gets certain posters posting and whether women's rights and child safeguarding are a priority for them.

Just saying.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 17/08/2026 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Clusterfuckular · 17/08/2026 16:15

Seethlaw · 16/08/2026 10:54

Huh, very interesting! Thank you.

Second, states Collins, the Suttas apply the doctrine to deny self of any person, treating conceit to be evident in any assertion of "this is mine, this I am, this is myself" (etam mamam eso 'ham asmi, eso me atta ti).

I obviously won't pretend to even begin to understand it, but this concept seems directly opposed to the very foundational principle of gender ideology that we have a gender identity, and a true self that we have a right to fully expose. Makes me wonder if there are any trans Buddhists...

One with "great self", state the early Buddhist Suttas, has a mind which is neither at the mercy of outside stimuli nor its own moods, neither scattered nor diffused, but imbued with self-control, and self-contained towards the single goal of nibbana and a 'Self-like' state.

Sounds great! Not to be pushed this way or that way, whether by what's going on in the outside, and by our own happenings inside... I understand why so many people are so taken by Buddhism.

'this concept seems directly opposed to the very foundational principle of gender ideology that we have a gender identity, and a true self that we have a right to fully expose'

Well, I would completely agree. However ... there are plenty of people who understand/interpret Buddhist teachings in lots of different ways, and yes, I do know people who identify as Buddhist and also as trans.

Personally, I don't think 'identifying' as anything is in the spirit of the teachings (see the point about 'no self').

There is lots of helpful and useful stuff in buddhist teachings, and as one might expect, plenty of less helpful stuff, too!

One of the aspects I enjoy about Buddhism is that it is an explicit part of the canon that one should question and test assertions for oneself.

'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher."'

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html

Anyway. Sorry for the derail! 😊

Kalama Sutta: To the Kalamas

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/08/2026 19:37

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · 17/08/2026 15:20

Treating the internet as an arena for fighting rather than a space for discussion is the core problem here. There’s a massive difference between being caustic with actual substance and just being a troll hiding behind 'internet roughness.' .But concluding that anyone who critiques this dynamic must secretly be an 'MRA or TRA' is a remarkable self-own, thanks for demonstrating live that any internal critique is instantly branded as some kind of enemy infiltration when actually some of us who see this for what it is know it's exactly the style and tactics used by MRAs to harass women and feminists online for ages, and think there's nothing to gain from women adopting incel- bro internet culture.

That’s nice dear. I guess you’ll just have to deal with it, given that no one is asking your permission to post as they see fit. But the further DARVOs are great, well done. If not unexpected.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/08/2026 19:38

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · 17/08/2026 15:02

Pointing out the irony of your post isn't tone policing. Nor is it controlling what you do. Notice I'm not "engaging" but throwing a bunch of random and unevidenced accusations at you or "scolding" you for rationally sharing an opinion. You might find not being chronically online means you actually fully read a post and responded Nd to the substance of it instead of inserting the words you wish something said.

More tedious scolding and insults.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/08/2026 19:42

Me: “internal critique”

you: “incel bro internet culture”

TBATST · 17/08/2026 20:00

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/08/2026 19:38

More tedious scolding and insults.

Oh, the irony...

ElenOfTheWays · 17/08/2026 20:02

Heggettypeg · 15/08/2026 10:10

Do you think we disbelieved them out of existence?

If only it was that easy 😂

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/08/2026 20:06

TBATST · 17/08/2026 20:00

Oh, the irony...

Did you have something interesting to add?

TBATST · 17/08/2026 20:10

Well, I think the situation - as with so many situations - is nuanced.
My guess is most people calling the GC Cult a cult are referring to 'cultish' or 'cultlike' thinking and behaviour which, to be fair, is pretty spot on.
They could instead have called it the GC Tribe and had (largely) the same implication.

I don't think they are referring to the group as an actual, literal, cult as you describe it (but then, I suspect you know this already and are purposefully drawing a dramatic and fallacious comparison in the hope of deflecting further criticism from those who feel you belong to a cult).

As to the 'cult of personality', whilst it's clear there are many MNetters who slavishly and unthinking seem to deify JKR - judging by their clear posts - I don't think she - or anyone else - is the head of this particular cult; more likely, it's the GC ideology that is held up as the mantra and ruling law of the cult, rather than any individual.

I've seen cult mentioned many, many, many times over this area of MN - sometimes said with intelligent, reasonable sincerity, and sometimes just thrown out as a seeming insult - but the point is that, like it or not, there is a cultlike behavioural model that seems to dominate here, and that those who speak out against it, or call it out, are reacted to in ways I'd imagine a cult reacts to dissenting voices.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/08/2026 20:20

These repetitive, tedious word salads are just an excuse to insult women on FWR. It’s wholly silly and immature. If you want to engage, tell people exactly which “unnuanced” positions they hold on gender identity ideology that you are objecting to. Or don’t. I don’t care either way, nor do I care whether people I have little respect for the opinions of think I’m in a cult in a “no, u” way.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/08/2026 20:22

Also, most women on FWR thoroughly appreciate JKR’s stand, but many of us were discussing it here long before she spoke out. No one is “deifying” her, and she isn’t our leader.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/08/2026 20:27

TBATST · 17/08/2026 20:10

Well, I think the situation - as with so many situations - is nuanced.
My guess is most people calling the GC Cult a cult are referring to 'cultish' or 'cultlike' thinking and behaviour which, to be fair, is pretty spot on.
They could instead have called it the GC Tribe and had (largely) the same implication.

I don't think they are referring to the group as an actual, literal, cult as you describe it (but then, I suspect you know this already and are purposefully drawing a dramatic and fallacious comparison in the hope of deflecting further criticism from those who feel you belong to a cult).

As to the 'cult of personality', whilst it's clear there are many MNetters who slavishly and unthinking seem to deify JKR - judging by their clear posts - I don't think she - or anyone else - is the head of this particular cult; more likely, it's the GC ideology that is held up as the mantra and ruling law of the cult, rather than any individual.

I've seen cult mentioned many, many, many times over this area of MN - sometimes said with intelligent, reasonable sincerity, and sometimes just thrown out as a seeming insult - but the point is that, like it or not, there is a cultlike behavioural model that seems to dominate here, and that those who speak out against it, or call it out, are reacted to in ways I'd imagine a cult reacts to dissenting voices.

Oh look!
The currently absent @KinderOfKinder posted the identical post on this thread on 14/08/2026 at 09:39

Maybe these people are sitting in the same basement? Sharing the same keyboard?

😂😂😂

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/08/2026 20:29

Sock puppeting isn't allowed is it?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/08/2026 20:29

Oooh good spot.