Tell me you don't know what a cult is...

[Seethlaw]

... without telling me you don't know what a cult is.

I grew up in a cult-ish church. It had some very unpleasant aspects to it indeed. The very concept of the GC movement as a cult utterly baffles me, and irritates me quite a bit, I must admit.

Where is our Leader? Some say JKR is that, even though she obviously didn't create the movement, since she joined it after it already existed. Okay, but then where is the cult of personality? Where is the hanging onto her every word? Where is the compulsory study of her life? Where is the regular and compulsory show of support of her as our leader?

What are the specific beliefs that random people outside the movement don't believe? "Men can't become women and vice versa" is not such a belief, since loads of people who would never call themselves GC also believe it. So what are our specific beliefs?

What is the rite of entry into the movement? How does one know that they themselves or someone else is a member of the movement?

Where are the big gatherings where the leaders speak The Word? Where are the regular gatherings where the members reinforce each other's beliefs?

What are the demands made of the members? Where are the compulsory meetings? Where are the financial requirements? Where are the specific behaviours we have to adhere to?

Where are the punishments for leaving the group? How do you even know you've left at all? And where are the stories of abuse and control told by the former members?

I could go on forever.

Accusing GC people of belonging to a cult is just as ridiculous and offensive as claiming, for example, that there's a trans genocide going on. It's deliberately appropriating the real suffering of other people to make a completely false and unsupportable point because there's no actual valid point to make. It's utterly reprehensible and shameful.

I guess that some people don't realise that you can be a gender critical person, and a trans person at the same time.

You attributed beliefs to the poster that they simply didn’t hold. That they objected to a company “not hating trans people “. People can see what you claimed. They can see the reality. They can reach their own conclusions.

I think though it’s telling that you keep repeating these “yea, but do you boycott this company? “ “do you avoid these practices?” “do you campaign for this for women?” You cannot comprehend that many of the women on these boards have been and continue to be involved in all manner of campaigning. Much of it feminist. Much of it what would traditionally be considered ‘progressive’. You can’t comprehend these things any more than you can comprehend the many and varied relationships that the women on these boards have with trans people, some of them relatives. You have to maintain in your mind the myth of the evil GC cult. I don’t know why. Maybe because, when you look at your child, it helps you sleep at night.

Is this you?:

Perfectly, and accurately, put.

In response to a post which accused people like me of using hate speech towards our own children:

We're supposed to teach them to be tolerant and polite. So how do you think a child's going to react, when their parent's using hate speech? It's so unsettling and wrong.

So it looks to me as if you have agreed, completely, with someone accusing us of hate speech. That accusation is unfounded, and based only on assumptions.

I find it interesting that you find it interesting, please could you give us your thoughts on what you find interesting about a GC trans identifying person?

Since you asked the question I'm also interested in how do you think that is intellectually and morally balanced?

Please try to answer without descending to the level that you have displayed in two threads I see you are currently posting on in a similar fashion. You could always direct your questions to the person in this thread who @Hedgehogforshort was talking about, or have you not been paying attention to the thread, and have you just come to "pwn" the women? 🙄

As drearily predictable as you, no doubt.

Plain simple language which is blunt.
But entirely accurate.

We have learnt that linguistics really matters and it is increasingly important to use words which are exactly the opposite to the word salad to cut through the gibberish and get to the heart of issues and what is being said.

This is in stark contrast to how women are supposed to be polite. British politeness. A social expectation to conform.

So when we don't it's jarring. When we talk it's considered 'offensive' because it's not what others want to hear. It shatters the illusion and the pr image that they want to project.

Transwomen are men. They can not be women. So the language here where people say 'men pretending to women' might be considered offensive to some, because it's to the point but that doesn't mean it's inaccurate. It's actually a neutral phrase because it describes something correctly. The whole point is the performance of feminity (which is a phrase that has been used by transwomen). The very definition of trans is a reference to appearing as the opposite sex.

Please desist from being insulting to individual posters. There are quite a few well known people who describe themselves as Trans. Blair White for starters, closer to home is Debbie Hayton. Even closer is Seethlaw, the person who started this thread.

Morally i don’t see why you cannot be trans and believe sex is real immutable and sometimes important, at the same time, or how that would intellectually be difficult to understand. Everybody knows what biological sex they are.

That poster has got themselves in such a muddle I'm personally letting them stew in their own contradictions 😁

Seriously? We're not your Mum. Stop behaving like an entitled child.
Nobody owes you a response to goady, intellectually sloppy posts - not women or men. If you're able to engage in respectful debate, then try it. Plopping on here sneering and snarling like a disgruntled teenager won't cut it.
We've seen it countless times before.

Every time someone comes on here just to make daft accusations and try their hardest to insult women, it helps illustrate the issues.

Hear, hear, Mrs O

No I think I could have a decent go at answering your questions, and I think I can stand up to any "challenge" you might present 😆

I was genuinely interested in your answers. If you'd like to share them, I'll happily share mine. If not it's no skin off my nose.

I am sorry you weren't able manage to rise above the level of discourse you have displayed so far.

I don't think you have been paying attention to the thread. I don't think you do know who @Hedgehogforshort was talking about. I think you have just come to attempt to "pwn" the women. Good luck to you, I say, no one's managed it so far! 😆

It’s a silly “I’m going to pretend you said something different and argue with that instead” derail and I agree I CBA. I couldn’t give a fuck about the middle school insults.

Hyperbole has the effect of 'the boy who cried wolf'.

Ad homs reveal a paucity of argument.

'Gotcha' attempts only work if your arguments make sense, and bring something fresh and unexpected. Otherwise flinging 'so there' statements just make you look like a petulant loser frustrated by their own inadequacies.

Oh yes, we sure do.

They obviously don't understand how many of us have been parents and/or educators. We've heard insults they can only dream of.😂

It was an interesting word choice that, "moral".

I certainly don't think there's anything immoral with being a trans identified person, nor do I think there's anything immoral with being a person who has GC/sex realist views.

Combine GC and trans identified in one person? Nope, still nothing immoral to be found there.

All the posts from that recent TRA poster appear to have been wiped as if they never happened 😮

I think they have been messing around reviving old threads. I guess MNHQ have gone for the nuclear option.

It does make the latter part of this thread look a bit weird now, though🤔

Judging by the distinct, familiar “lame James Bond villain” style of posting I think they were quite possibly already known to MNHQ.

I've never seen that happen before!

It does make the last few pages of thread look a bit weird now @AimsAndObjectives

I wonder if it was a PBP, or just a chaos gremlin TRA.

Oh dear, how sad, never mind!

Oh for goodness' sake @TheTRAsAreOutToGetMe . What are you blethering on about?
I pointed out that the poster you quoted was accusing parents of alienating their children by using "hate speech" , and that given how loosely transactivists define "hate", accusations by them of using "hate speech" need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
I said nothing at all about any poster using hate speech on this thread. So where did you get that from?

Their talking points and use of vocabulary were very familiar. They reminded me of one of the muppets we had hanging around 2-3 months ago.

Hard to tell one from the other at times, mind - there's precious little originality in the tedious insults from any of these posters.

"The namesh Bond, Lame Bond" 😆