Are we a cult?

[CyclingSam]

I keep reading that sex realists, of which I am one, are a cult. Perhaps a genderist could be so kind as to explain what a cult is, and why we qualify. Sometimes one of us calls them a cult too. Who has a better case, hmmm?

You're back. Perfect

Is your position that, for any man to avoid scrutiny regarding his behaviour, all he really needs to do is to don a skirt and every comment can therefore be written off as 'transmisogyny'?

Being "cis" is not an experience I've ever had. Nor do I believe anyone else has either.

What about

1. The unconscious woman in a car accident?
2. The older woman who's never even heard of cis?
3. The woman with dementia who's bemused by it?
4. The non-verbal autistic woman?
5. The GC woman who rejects cis, in its association of her with "feminine behaviours"?

Just adult human females? A kind of nameless, noun-less second class?

No, that’s not my position. It would depend if the comment was trans misogyny or about something else wouldn’t it? The same as not everything said to a women is misogynistic (but some of the things said by women to women on here are!)

Sorry, was there actually something you wanted to discuss?

I think that we already have a consensus. The protected characterisitic of sex has been clarified by the SC ruling and explains that, where the word sex is written in the Equality Act, it has to mean biological sex. The PC of gender reassignment remains in place and protects people from discrimination etc on the grounds of their GR. Sports bodies are developing policies that enable trans-identified people to continue to play sport, while protecting the female category. Repeat polling indicates that the public doesn't mind people identifying as a different gender but that they don't seem to believe that someone actually changes sex, nor that gender identity should ever be used in place of sex in situations where sex matters.
I agree that the debate about pronouns and descriptors will rumble on and will probably never be fully resolved, but the Forstater ruling suggests that compelled speech will not be possible from any quarter.

My experience of being cis is feeling really comfortable in my body and gender identity, and always feeling like that. I am able to imagine that some people - including trans people - have a different experience.

And yet it's commonly accepted (although I actually find this problematic) that a similar "rule change" re. reclamation of the n- word is a-ok. You're arguably doing your own selective application of standards thing here in this comment.

Tbh, I do find arguments that "knickers in a twist" isn't remotely misogynistic a bit unconvincing. Like the photo under discussion, so much of this is about context. Likewise, I thought JKR reposting the pic was tasteless - I also think to call that upskirting is shameless appropriation of yet another word women need, and totally misrepresents the context.

Speaking of - I'd be interested to see more from the posters on how this part of the debate's evolved, eg. responses to the Guardian article posted about the Wild Girls, or whatever, programme. It can be very telling watching what people choose to reply to.

You claim that transmisogyny is the intersection of misogyny and transphobia, but you haven't really explained how such an intersection occurs or what it would look like. That is, how would any male person become a victim of misogyny?

More pertinently. If a man (male) person was behaving in a way that a woman, or women, felt was creepy and they used a photo of that man to illustrate that would you object? Would a woman or women be allowed to illustrate the type of behaviour or presentation they found creepy?

Maybe you don't think that women should be allowed to flag concerns in this way. But if you do, does that situation change if that male person presets himself in 'female clothes'? Or only if he also claims to be a woman?

I would like to add another one:

The woman who doesn't have English as a first language.

I refer to my previous post on this word.

For that to apply generally would imply you think everyone has a "gender identity". I don't. I'm a woman because I was born in a female body and survived to adulthood. We are sexed bodies. Everything else is personality.

There’s lots of places you can go if you’re interested in understanding more about intersectional feminism / specifically trans misogyny. Julia Serano coined the term and would be a good place to start.

A women could take a photo of a man behaving creepily, yes. I’ve been clear that my issue with J K Rowling’s action was using a photo of someone’s body with the intention of shaming them. That’s a different thing.

Thing is, it didn't used to be (remotely) plausible. Which is why we need some kind of agreed social standards - dilute them too much, and women and girls are among those most likely to lose out. We rely on these things far more than some posters in this thread would like to acknowledge. One comment really stood out to me (sorry, I've forgotten who made it, and am paraphrasing): give up the word "woman" - and corresponding recognition of women as a distinct demographic worth naming - and women lose out, because in our political absence, things default to male-as-default. I'd not thought of it quite like that before.

Julia Serano who is quoted in the image below?

😬

Do you understand the difference between criticising the body and criticising the behaviour?

In fact - let's stop with the insinuation. Why don't you post a screenshot of what JKR actually posted, in context?

(Of course you should censor the picture by covering as much of Fred as you feel his dignity requires. I certainly don't expect you to reshare the actual image when you express such strong views on that. Just the actual context to what was done and why).

@Catiette Likewise, I thought JKR reposting the pic was tasteless

Do you mean inappropriate or do you mean vulgar? Genuine question

Sorry about that.

34 pages? And counting. Of 'women' arguing whether or not standing up for our sex based rights is cult like.

In 2026.

Jfc 🤨

It's ok. I found a Crunchie ice cream in the freezer😘

Yes I do. And I don’t think JK Rowling was just criticizing behaviour, I think she was trying to create shame through an image of someone’s body (and as a I said up thread - whether you think it’s ’reading too much into it’ or not, Harry Potter is absolutely full of textual evidence that JK Rowling is disgusted by some body types, and keen to humiliate).

I’m not going to share the photo here, obviously, as I don’t want to be the person who creates a situation of loads more people commenting on someone’s body.

1/10 above all cos of the use of "experiences" and "helpful" in the unintentional implicit acknowledgement that whatever it may be, it isn't essential in the way it is to be able to name the physical reality of an adult human female.

You know, I could coin the phrase "trans theft" to label how people having things that do not belong to me is actually stealing from me. And I could spin some pretty convincing socio-economic Feminist post-Marxist analysis to justify it.

It doesn't actually make it a thing though.

The sad thing is, "trans misogyny" understood as being the devaluing of male people in patriarchy for associating themselves with femininity is actually worth talking about.

But we can't do that, because the phrase is being used instead to pretend said men are being doubly discriminated against as both women and as trans.

Again, such a shame, and so stupid that this asinine sexist belief system is preventing actual Feminist analysis of the trans phenomenon.

LOL I didn't think you would.

That's why I made it very clear you should censor the actual image. I didn't want you to use your sensibilities around this as an excuse for not backing up your pages and pages of insinuation.

But - you still used your sensibilities around this as an excuse for not backing up your pages and pages of insinuation.

Thus proving you know damn well your nasty insinuations wouldn't stand up to cold hard facts.

Oh so it was you who put 50p in the transactivist.
Tut tut

I was interested in your view. How you understand the intersection would operate between misogyny and transphobia. If we take misogynoiir as a comparison, we can clearly see how a Black woman may face discrimination separately because of her female body (misogyny) and because of the colour of her skin (racism). That is she may face racism that is not misogyny, and misogyny that is not racist. She may however also experience discrimination resulting from the intersection of those two characteristics. That’s quite straightforward. I thought you may be able to expand on how that process would operate in relation to a transwoman. If you can’t, that’s fine.

Regarding the photo as a method of ‘shaming them’. You say that a woman can take a photo of a man behaving creepily, but it seems that if they shared that photo you would accuse them of trying to shame that man. Or, again, have I misread that and it’s only ‘shaming’ if the man in question calls himself a woman?