Are we a cult?

[CyclingSam]

I keep reading that sex realists, of which I am one, are a cult. Perhaps a genderist could be so kind as to explain what a cult is, and why we qualify. Sometimes one of us calls them a cult too. Who has a better case, hmmm?

I love that terfy pottery. It's marvellous. But I can hear the frustration, the weariness and just sick of it all-ness in "ten years, nada" all the same.

That most of you are arguing about ideology rather proves the point. This thread is not so much about what is believed, but the practice of those beliefs. I’m sure there are plenty of women who share the same core beliefs as this forum, but don’t feel they can join in discussion due to the hostility newcomers tend to receive.

I don't agree that newcomers face hostility. When I was a newcomer (bit late to the party, but had been reading for ages) I never had any hostility from anyone other than the TRAs on here.

I suppose it depends what you post though, as to the reception you get. 🤷‍♀️

Well that would be the weirdest-ass cult. One that apparently actively discourages new members. Not sure you’ve thought this through.

Of course, posters do ask newcomers sets of pointed questions (aka a purity test) to see if they actually fit or not. Do you think TWAW? What about puberty blockers? What’s your opinion on this? That? Howse you going? Etc.

The board is too big to know who's new. There are a few known names and everyone else could be name changers/new/dont posts as regularly.

What is challenged is what's posted. Saying that Fred Wallace is a victim of 'tranmisogyny' is one.

I guess we can add “how cults recruit new members” to things you know nothing about.

Yes asking questions and finding out what people believe, and why they believe those things is part of a discussion.

Funnily enough GC posters here can and are able to answer questions about what they believe and give meaningful explanations why they believe what they do. TRAs are not so big on answers or meaningful explanations.

I often see TRAs making statements misrepresenting GC arguments. It's very rare that they ask questions and I've yet to see one really enter into the spirit of good faith discussion. I imagine it must be difficult to have a discussion in good faith when your entire ideology is built on the lie that men can become women though.

I agree with @NoWordForFluffy
"I don't agree that newcomers face hostility. When I was a newcomer (bit late to the party, but had been reading for ages) I never had any hostility from anyone other than the TRAs on here.

I suppose it depends what you post though, as to the reception you get. 🤷‍♀️"

Absolutely, sexist or misogynistic beliefs won't go unchallenged here. That's not a bad thing.

I always find the posts from regulars thought provoking and I think it's important that women are enabled to speak up, I'm grateful that MN allows free discussion of women's rights in this regard, now at least.

I'm also grateful for the posters here who robustly push back against this insidious, anti-women, anti-reality, homophobic, and harmful gender ideology.

Disagree. This forum isn’t that large, really. There are many regular names, a few that pop occasionally, and occasional newcomers. The newcomers rarely receive a good reception UNLESS they can prove their integrity (with the ‘right’ kind of post you speak of).

It’s not exactly cult-ish, but definitely very like an echo chamber.

You assume everyone else is paying these boards, and who posts on them, the slavish amount of attention you give them.

You do realise the number of posters who come here brigading and ask questions not because they are genuine posters, but because they have come from Reddit to shit stir don't you? There's been a long tradition of this from multiple men's rights activists over the years - not just trans related ones.

There's a surprising degree of patience given this issue. Posters with an alterna motive get spotted a mile off.

The fact that women here are trying to filter the good faith posters from the bad faith posters tells another story about how women have got defensive of women's spaces and the volume of brigading.

It comes as a shock that women don't have to be agreeable constantly. Women are allowed to be spikey and none compliant. Once again we are having women's behaviour being judged as 'not kind' which is part of the problem women face.

We can not get away from this dynamic. It's not our job to be kind. Its not our responsibility to be accommodating. We just want to talk about problems and be honest about real issues and this has a requirement of blunt and to the point language. This comes as a shock to some.

The tone policing is boring and is ultimately proving harmful to women.

That's where things currently are - control being tried to be imposed by tone policing to demonise women and to try to delegitimise their concerns.

Anyone engaging in these methods to manipulate and control women is going to get short shrift for this reason.

"Echo chamber", "Cult", "Purity spiral".

@CohensDiamondTeeth

I imagine it must be difficult to have a discussion in good faith when your entire ideology is built on the lie that men can become women though.

This is exactly the kind of blanket statement I mean - addressing ideology rather than mechanics. I don’t think men can become women, but I’ve only ever experienced hostility here.

I know what they mean. Do you?

Well that's great that you don't think men can become women, that's something we agree on.

My statement only applies to people who believe in GI. Yes it was a blanket statement, but the ideology is built on lies, so it's at least a truthful blanket statement.

If GI is not what you believe in, then my statement wasn't about you.

"I know what they mean. Do you?"

Yes. If you know what they mean, perhaps you could try to use them correctly in the future?

We don't act like a cult, we aren't an echo chamber and there is no purity spiral. That is DARVO again IMO because I think all those things pretty fairly accurately describe TRA circles.

A GC echo chamber that routinely has extended contributions from TRAs, but frightens away contributors that share the core beliefs of GC women by being hostile.

<adds “what an echo chamber is” to list >

They really don’t. They read what posters write and challenge what they say, which is precisely what you expect on a discussion board.
If someone declares, on this one, that transwomen are women, or that puberty blockers are a suitable treatment for gender confused children, they get pushback. What else would you expect?

I've never been asked those questions. Again, it must depend on the content of your posts as to what response / questions you get.

This board taught me feminism in action just by a bunch of women not being agreeable and apologetic.

We get so much hostility and so many bad faith posters, PBPs, and general arseholes who keep trying to dox, sue, slander or annoy that a level of keeping one's guard up is the sensible approach.

Yes me too.

It's quite liberating!

Echo chamber = place where opposing views are shared and challenged in robust debate.

Interesting take that one.

We have grown used to the idea that ideas being challenged is apparently 'hate'. This accusation has been thrown around so wildly it no longer has impact.

I've seen numerous examples of this throughout MN on various subjects too. It's like people can't cope with being challenged even a touch and having to explain their views. The expectation is we should just nod heads in agreement apparently and this is what passes as debate... Oh wait.

I think perhaps there's a post-modern understanding of what the words 'debate' and 'echo chamber' mean going on here. The twisting and manipulation of language once again.

I think theres a point here.

I name change regularly and I have never experienced purity tests here.

It has always been a board with deep discussion, and an assumption posters can think issues through, even before it was focused on 'gender and sex'.

I might be moved to support the introduction of a purity test, though.

I'll draw up a.list.

I've had a few different name changes through the years too, and I've never experienced this so called purity test either.

In my head I am translating this "purity test" as "Posters on MN ask challenging questions, or make points that I don't want to think about".