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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Supporting women in prison.

144 replies

dylexicdementor11 · 10/07/2026 10:48

I’m delighted to see so many mumsnetters are concerned over the welfare of women in prison. However, I thought it might be good to point out that there are many organizations doing incredible work within women’s prisons.
If you have the time to engage with the it would be wonderful if you could support them and find more information about the issues women are actually facing in prison.

Here are some links that may point you in the right direction.

https://www.womeninprison.org.uk/

Home - Women In Prison

Women in Prison supports women affected by the criminal justice system and campaign to end the harm it causes.

https://www.womeninprison.org.uk

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2026 21:21

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 12/07/2026 21:12

Exactly. And let’s not forget that womens prisons were explicitly targeted as a gateway case to ensure removal of single sex spaces more widely.

This was on the basis that prisons were the hardest to justify - they realised that convincing those in authority to force vulnerable women to live in very close proximity to men was going to be hard. Sadly it was not hard enough.

The risk of sexual assault and rape was deemed acceptable, the issue of voyeurism by men wanting to shower with the women was deemed acceptable, the distress felt by women (the vast majority victims of domestic violence and up to 80% suffering a head injury at the hands of men) - absolutely fine for the decision makers. Women being used by the prison service to ‘socialise’ men who think they are women - totally acceptable for the Prison Service and government.

There are many accounts from female prisoners of the problems they have experienced. I ask myself why the report shared by OP doesn’t mention it. If the authors are of the same mind as OP and some PPs here, it is no surprise that either it was mentioned and ‘accidentally’ left out or the women didn’t trust the organisation enough to be honest about their concerns.

That’s pretty poor for an organisation that claims to advocate for women.

I fully agree. And we know how much of the women’s sector is captured by this bullshit.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 12/07/2026 21:22

Lexibletheflexible · 12/07/2026 20:48

The organisations i work for collect prisoner views routinely as well as looking at the research done by others that focus on prisoner experiences and outcomes.

That is what helps them decide the best way staff and volunteers can help the prisoners. Much of said research is available publicly.

Trans women in women's prisons never comes up.

So did they just ‘forget’ to ask the woman that have been incarcerated with men and sexually assaulted or harassed or did they make it clear that it would be frowned upon to mention it?

You seem to be unable to acknowledge that actual female prisoners have been harmed so your claims are patently untrue.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2026 21:27

As FDJ says in the letter Dr Coleman reads out, women where she was were disciplined for “misgendering” including objecting to men showering at the same time as the women.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 12/07/2026 21:27

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2026 21:21

I fully agree. And we know how much of the women’s sector is captured by this bullshit.

Thank you and yes. I imagine that these ‘prisoner support’ organisations pp volunteers for have made it very clear that women should not raise it to them, possibly under the threat of valuable support being withdrawn. It’s an action typical of many captured organisations.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2026 21:29

Yes, we know how these people operate. Time and again it’s been demonstrated.

Bosky · 13/07/2026 01:13

Lexibletheflexible · 12/07/2026 20:48

The organisations i work for collect prisoner views routinely as well as looking at the research done by others that focus on prisoner experiences and outcomes.

That is what helps them decide the best way staff and volunteers can help the prisoners. Much of said research is available publicly.

Trans women in women's prisons never comes up.

The organisations i work for collect prisoner views routinely as well as looking at the research done by others that focus on prisoner experiences and outcomes.

That is what helps them decide the best way staff and volunteers can help the prisoners. Much of said research is available publicly.

Trans women in women's prisons never comes up.

If so, perhaps you could reflect on why women prisoners at Foston Hall have never mentioned any issues about the Early Days Peer Mentor who receives personal information about all new prisoners and has one-to-one meetings with them?

Why they might only feel safe to disclose how this affected them after they were released and only then to women who they knew would be sympathetic?

Rather than to you or others in your organisation.

This is the person I am referring to, the Early Days Peer Mentor appointed by the prison to meet women when they arrive at a women's prison:

Michael Jameson / Lauren Jeska, a violent male who identifies as a trans woman, was sentenced to 18 years in prison for attempted murder in March 2017 after pleading guilty at Birmingham Crown Court in 2016.

Jeska, 42, admitted stabbing Ralph Knibbs in the head and neck at Alexander Stadium in March 2016, and also causing actual bodily harm to two other UK Athletics officials, Kevan Taylor and Tim Begley, who tried to intervene during the attack.

Judge Simon Drew said the attack had been planned and executed with “chilling precision”, meaning Jeska posed a “serious risk in the future”. Mr Knibbs suffered a stroke during the attack and now has limited vision in both eyes, rendering him disabled, and has difficulty eating due to severed nerves.

Competing in the female category, Jeska was England’s champion fell-runner three times between 2010 and 2012. After failing to produce samples to determine testosterone levels, Jeska’s eligibility to compete in female competitions was questioned by UK Athletics and these racing results were subsequently declared null and void.

When initially appearing in court to plead guilty in September 2016, the BBC, The Guardian and Sky News made no mention in their reporting that Jeska was a male who identified as a trans woman, despite the CPS and West Midlands Police both confirming that it was a factor in the motive for attacking Ralph Knibbs.

Detective Sergeant Sally Olsen said of the case: “We understand Jeska had been asked to provide further evidence of hormone levels after historical complaints to UK Athletics that she had an unfair advantage competing in women’s events because she had been born a man. The governing body’s policy required the athlete to take a blood test but she took exception to this and feared being unable to compete.”

While on remand, Jeska told friends of feeling traumatised by the meeting with UK Athletics, and suffering flashbacks. Jeska self-diagnosed these as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (a diagnosis not made by any of the four psychiatrists who examined Jeska, though some did suggest the defendant was on the autistic spectrum).

Jeska, of Machynlleth, Powys, is to serve the 18 year sentence in HMP Foston Hall, a women’s closed category prison. Sentencing details from the Crown Court indicate that this violent crime will be recorded in female crime statistics rather than male, as Jeska is listed as female. In 2016, Ministry of Justice statistics reveal there were only 6 women convicted of attempted murder in England and Wales (presumably including Jeska), meaning that Jeska’s inclusion has effectively distorted and increased the female crime statistics in this category by 20%. Likewise, Claire Darbyshire‘s 2016 conviction for murder will also be counted in female statistics.

Full details:
https://transcrimeuk.com/2017/10/31/lauren-jeska/

Incidentally, are the "women" you speak of all actually female?

I have been a member of an Independent Monitoring Board of a Women's Prison. You have mentioned several issues that, in your experience, women prisoners are concerned about and I would agree with you that most are common concerns. However, "torture" was not one of them and I would be interested to know what evidence you have that women are "tortured" in prison.

You have not, however, mentioned the single issue that deeply traumatised all women in the prison I visited and that affects women in most prisons. Nor another issue that causes all women considerable distress in prison. Funny that, you being the big expert on all things Women in Prison and all.

I'll leave you to thrash about wondering where your pit of ignorance is located.

As for men in women's prisons, there were men in the women's prison that I was involved with. Men who had murdered women. Men who had murdered other men. Also arsonists and child sex offenders. Other men were not dissimilar to men I encountered as patients when I worked in a long-stay psychiatric hospital, men who were delusional, bewildered and who, like the murderers, considered themselves to be lesbians.

Apart from the fact that they scared the shit out the women incarcerated with them, they took up an inordinate amount of staff time and IMB time.

IMB annual reports often record that the majority of incidents of various types are attributable to a small number of prisoners held in women's prisons. One reason is that some prisoners, male and female, have severe mental health problems.

Some women, females, are held there for the sole reason that there are no mental health beds available. That is, they have not committed any crime but a court has ruled that they need to be held in a place of safety - for their own safety. They are a minority of prisoners.

Some people, male and female, in women's prisons take cross-sex hormones, also have severe mental health problems and account for a high proportion of incidents of various types. They too are a minority of prisoners.

Some people, male and female, in women's prisons take cross-sex hormones and account for a high proportion of recorded incidents of a sexual nature. They too are a minority of prisoners.

Women's prisons do not get allocated extra staff to accommodate the extra burden created by a minority of prisoners so the impact is felt by the majority of prisoners, compromising their care and degrading their experience of prison.

I am extremely surprised that the organisation you work for appears to be unaware of the disproportionate impact on the safe functioning of women's prisons attributable to the presence of a small number of men and women who take cross-sex hormones.

How do you account for that?

Allisnotlost1 · 13/07/2026 01:35

ACertainSenseOfLiberty · 10/07/2026 13:29

A friend of mine is a prison visitor at a women's prison. Every time he talks about it I am shocked at the lack of safeguarding - he gets given keys on arrival and wanders to the room without a guard, he does the visiting without a guard in the room - he's radio trained so at least someone in the room can call for help if required. OK so he's never alone 1 on 1 with a prisoner but sometimes all the volunteers on that day are men.

If you have concerns that your friend may be a danger to women you can report these to the organisation he volunteers for.

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 02:24

Luckydog7 · 11/07/2026 08:58

Why would women prisoners reveal their true feelings about men in women's prisons when you make it very clear that you don't care about it or acknowledge that it's a problem?

Many of us have had to self censure to protect ourselves from vilification, employment issues and social consequences. Women prisoners are already incredibly vulnerable, it would be awful for them to lose the support of an (otherwise) valuable ally in you in order to raise this point when you make it clear where you stand.

As pp have raised earlier. Hopefully the relatively 'miniscule' number of transwomen in prisons means that this is only a conceptual problem to many prisoners rather then a live issue and it's easy to believe that the women in this position would prioritise other more immediate issues.

I'm curious though, if you have spoken to women who actual live/share space with transwomen prisoners? Or only those (hopefully many) who have never had to deal with this and aren't imagining a large hairy murderer or sex offender sharing the showers with them.

We know that several (we don't know how many) women have been sexually assaulted in prison by transwomen. They have been to court over it and at the time got a shrug basically. What would you say to those women if you came across them in your volunteer work?

Would you tell them to focused on other things because it's such a tiny problem? Would you tell them they should have been more worried about prison guards?

Or would you tell them that the men who raped them were actually women and they should stop saying such awful things about the poor dears.

The women can raise anything they want. The fact is that as there are only a maximum of 4 trans women in women's prisons in England means that there arent enough of them to generate a large number of prisoners who identify them as primary issue. Or any number of prisoners.

Women raise things in this research that is far more likely to get them harmed by staff than a problem with trans women. A lot of staff are very conservative and would have no interest in protecting trans people of any kind. In fact, Trans men in womens prisons have reported that they are treated in discriminatory ways. Here is an example.

https://insidetime.org/comment/finding-a-voice-a-trans-man-in-a-female-prison/

The other thing is that research is anonymised. So no prisoner would be punished for admitting that trans women are an issue in prison. Just like they aren't outed when they reveal staff have harmed them.

The reason female prisoners do not report trans women as a problem for them is because they aren't.

Finding a voice: a trans man in a female prison

In 2017, I started my sentence in HMP New Hall. It was my first time in. I told the nurse at reception I was transgender, and she said “What do you want me to do about it? Go see a doctor.”  In my …

https://insidetime.org/comment/finding-a-voice-a-trans-man-in-a-female-prison/

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 02:27

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2026 21:20

You’ve been asked several times, with all your boundless “compassion” what you’d say to a woman who was sexually assaulted by a male prisoner who shouldn’t be there. You haven’t answered. Watch that little video I posted.

I speak to women all the time who are sexually assaulted by men in prison who shouldn't be there. Those men just happen to be staff.

As someone who spends more time around prisons than you ever will in your life because you don't actualy care about female prisoners, who do you think needs to understand more about female prisoners. You, who probably can't name a single person you know and like who has been sentenced to jail time, or me who has been to prison and volunteered with female prisoners for nearly 20 years now?

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 02:30

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 12/07/2026 21:27

Thank you and yes. I imagine that these ‘prisoner support’ organisations pp volunteers for have made it very clear that women should not raise it to them, possibly under the threat of valuable support being withdrawn. It’s an action typical of many captured organisations.

Why dont you contact them, like the one the OP named here, and ask them directly? Why don't you volunteer for one and see how it works?

I'm sure once you have some prisoners that trust and see you as an outlet, you'll understand that they really have no filter or qualms telling you exactly what they feel and think about all aspects of prison life. There would be no reason for them to cover up that there are loads of trans women or that they make them feel unsafe at all.

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 02:32

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 12/07/2026 21:22

So did they just ‘forget’ to ask the woman that have been incarcerated with men and sexually assaulted or harassed or did they make it clear that it would be frowned upon to mention it?

You seem to be unable to acknowledge that actual female prisoners have been harmed so your claims are patently untrue.

That's because the numbers are miniscule compared to the number of women harmed by men who work in prisons or other inmates. All women can give their views in various ways and they do. They just don't view trans women as a problem worth mentioning because they don't view it as one.

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 02:36

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2026 21:17

So yes, women in a women’s prison are a threat to women because there aren’t any men there (except staff). If there were more men there they would be more of a threat to women, wouldn’t they, because men are demonstrably more threat to women in every sense. Were you under the impression you were making some sort of point?

The male staff in prisons are something female prisoners talk about in relation to harm in prison. Many just don't believe it is their maleness that makes them abusive and so wouldn't blame men so much as those who seek power over the powerless. Therefore, a woman who wants that status is equally suspicious if not more so from some perspectives.

So again, the chances of them thinking that trans women are problematic because they are male is very slim.

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 02:39

I'll say again, you are all free to contact these charities and organisations and find out more about what female prisoners report to be problematic for them in jail. You can also volunteer for them so you can get to know female prisoners yourself, develop a rapport and ask them for their "real" views on the subject.

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 02:41

Allisnotlost1 · 13/07/2026 01:35

If you have concerns that your friend may be a danger to women you can report these to the organisation he volunteers for.

The issue is the procedure, not the individual. Women do report in large numbers that these types of scenarios lead to their exploitation. Sadly they don't always realise that the situation is/was exploitative and might report something like this as a consensual affair with a staff member/volunteer.

YourArtfulEagle · 13/07/2026 03:31

@dylexicdementor11 @Lexibletheflexible
As prisons will be strictly single-sex soon enough, as a result of FWS, then fortunately all your terribly important concerns about women spending too much time thinking about this issue will soon be addressed, once the problem has been finally solved.

Though perhaps you can name change and enjoy scolding FWR on a different topic. I bet that'd be something you'd enjoy.

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 03:52

YourArtfulEagle · 13/07/2026 03:31

@dylexicdementor11 @Lexibletheflexible
As prisons will be strictly single-sex soon enough, as a result of FWS, then fortunately all your terribly important concerns about women spending too much time thinking about this issue will soon be addressed, once the problem has been finally solved.

Though perhaps you can name change and enjoy scolding FWR on a different topic. I bet that'd be something you'd enjoy.

The very vast majority of female prisoners experience a single sex environment in terms of other inmates. The main issue with any thing that ensures that absolutely ALL female prisoners have that experience is that some people who are currently pretending to care about prisoners and actually speak about them some of the time will stop because they don't have a real interest in female prisoner's welfare.

We currently have a thread where a good number of people think its ok to punish prisoners with inhumane living conditions because of their imprisoned status. That would include female prisoners and that is despite being aware of the unique reasons women in particular are typically in prison for crimes related to survival and trauma.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/07/2026 07:49

And the ones that don't, well they don't matter fk they, they're just taking one for the TRA team

your airy disregard for the women impacted by men being parked in their prisons is here for all to see

you're just demonstrating the basic ideology that the number of women it's ok to be harmed to give men what they want is always n+1

and yes I saw that thread and most people were telling the OP she was awful

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 08:27

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/07/2026 07:49

And the ones that don't, well they don't matter fk they, they're just taking one for the TRA team

your airy disregard for the women impacted by men being parked in their prisons is here for all to see

you're just demonstrating the basic ideology that the number of women it's ok to be harmed to give men what they want is always n+1

and yes I saw that thread and most people were telling the OP she was awful

Let me tell you the difference between me and you. You think it's a problem that prisoners might have to share a cell with a trans woman. I think it's a problem that prisoners are sharing cells and showers and fight for a system which would not allow that at all. It is demeaning, undignified and inhumane.

That's thw difference between caring about female prisoners, and just wanting trans women to know they arent women.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 13/07/2026 08:30

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 02:32

That's because the numbers are miniscule compared to the number of women harmed by men who work in prisons or other inmates. All women can give their views in various ways and they do. They just don't view trans women as a problem worth mentioning because they don't view it as one.

That's because the numbers are miniscule

Ok so it seems like you are too busy with your areas of interest to take this issue on board which is fine - it is a tricky area subject to cover ups and anticline at the highest level.

But as even you admit that it’s happening now (albeit minimising it - I’m sure the victims don’t thank you for that), why don’t you let us get on and advocate to remove that as an issue and you can focus on your stuff? Why do we have to stop doing what we’re doing?

While we’re on the subject, your maths doesn’t really add up. You claim there are now four men in the female estate (despite the law saying there should be zero - HMP can’t even follow the law. I haven’t checked your numbers) so for example the man housed in HMP Bronzefield affected approximately 527 women. Rapist Martin Ponting changed his name to Jessica Eindirld to prove ‘how serious’ he was and was moved from high security Whitemoor to Bronzefield. Also affected are the female prison guards tasked with managing and strip searching a violent man.

But one of Ponting's victims has described the fact her attacker was allowed a sex change as "diabolical", external.
She told the Sun newspaper: "There are not enough words to describe him and the evil he has done.
"It is diabolical they have allowed him to have a sex change and diabolical that he could be freed this year.
"He may have changed physically but his brain is still the same."
The Prison Service has said it does not comment on individuals.
Campaign group Voice4Victims said the case "highlights the great imbalance of equality within our justice system".

You have made it crystal clear that a woman raising that to you would not receive a sympathetic ear so why don’t you let us worry about those women and you can crack on with your own advocacy? It’s a bit odd that you won’t recognise all issues faced by these women, you admit you know it happens and you are so keen that these issues are not addressed that you tell us not to do anything about it, but you do you I guess.

Are there any other issues affecting women that you don’t want us to look at either?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39337805?app-referrer=deep-link

A shadow is cast of a cell door

Transgender rapist moved to women's prison after sex change

The move is condemned as "diabolical" by one victim, who says "his brain is still the same".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39337805?app-referrer=deep-link

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 13/07/2026 08:33

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 08:27

Let me tell you the difference between me and you. You think it's a problem that prisoners might have to share a cell with a trans woman. I think it's a problem that prisoners are sharing cells and showers and fight for a system which would not allow that at all. It is demeaning, undignified and inhumane.

That's thw difference between caring about female prisoners, and just wanting trans women to know they arent women.

You think it's a problem that prisoners might have to share a cell with a trans woman.

Are you seriously suggesting that it’s not a problem for a woman to share a cell with a violent rapist moved from a high security prison not because he no longer needs high security but because he changed his name?

Would you be happy to do that?

Bosky · 13/07/2026 08:34

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 08:27

Let me tell you the difference between me and you. You think it's a problem that prisoners might have to share a cell with a trans woman. I think it's a problem that prisoners are sharing cells and showers and fight for a system which would not allow that at all. It is demeaning, undignified and inhumane.

That's thw difference between caring about female prisoners, and just wanting trans women to know they arent women.

just wanting trans women to know they arent women.

Men who claim to identify as women know very well that they are not women. Especially the ones with Prison Onset Dysphoria who are miraculously "cured" when they are released back into the community.

Your main gripe is showing. Not that women on FWR do not care enough about women in prison, according to you, but that women on FWR do not care enough about men who claim to identify as women.

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 08:34

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 13/07/2026 08:30

That's because the numbers are miniscule

Ok so it seems like you are too busy with your areas of interest to take this issue on board which is fine - it is a tricky area subject to cover ups and anticline at the highest level.

But as even you admit that it’s happening now (albeit minimising it - I’m sure the victims don’t thank you for that), why don’t you let us get on and advocate to remove that as an issue and you can focus on your stuff? Why do we have to stop doing what we’re doing?

While we’re on the subject, your maths doesn’t really add up. You claim there are now four men in the female estate (despite the law saying there should be zero - HMP can’t even follow the law. I haven’t checked your numbers) so for example the man housed in HMP Bronzefield affected approximately 527 women. Rapist Martin Ponting changed his name to Jessica Eindirld to prove ‘how serious’ he was and was moved from high security Whitemoor to Bronzefield. Also affected are the female prison guards tasked with managing and strip searching a violent man.

But one of Ponting's victims has described the fact her attacker was allowed a sex change as "diabolical", external.
She told the Sun newspaper: "There are not enough words to describe him and the evil he has done.
"It is diabolical they have allowed him to have a sex change and diabolical that he could be freed this year.
"He may have changed physically but his brain is still the same."
The Prison Service has said it does not comment on individuals.
Campaign group Voice4Victims said the case "highlights the great imbalance of equality within our justice system".

You have made it crystal clear that a woman raising that to you would not receive a sympathetic ear so why don’t you let us worry about those women and you can crack on with your own advocacy? It’s a bit odd that you won’t recognise all issues faced by these women, you admit you know it happens and you are so keen that these issues are not addressed that you tell us not to do anything about it, but you do you I guess.

Are there any other issues affecting women that you don’t want us to look at either?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39337805?app-referrer=deep-link

Prisons dont work in the way you suggest. It woukdnt affect every prisoner in the unit. Some might not have ever even seen that person as they are on a different wing. I was in Bronzefield myself and still visit often.

Ive said many times that you all should get involved with interacting with female prisoners, too, so you can bring your ideas and views to them and see what they think.

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 08:36

Bosky · 13/07/2026 08:34

just wanting trans women to know they arent women.

Men who claim to identify as women know very well that they are not women. Especially the ones with Prison Onset Dysphoria who are miraculously "cured" when they are released back into the community.

Your main gripe is showing. Not that women on FWR do not care enough about women in prison, according to you, but that women on FWR do not care enough about men who claim to identify as women.

No, I'm pointing out the difference between your issues with prisons (there could be a transwoman in there and they might harm a woman) and mine (they demean and humiliate prisoners in several harmful ways that should be illegal).

Lexibletheflexible · 13/07/2026 08:38

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 13/07/2026 08:33

You think it's a problem that prisoners might have to share a cell with a trans woman.

Are you seriously suggesting that it’s not a problem for a woman to share a cell with a violent rapist moved from a high security prison not because he no longer needs high security but because he changed his name?

Would you be happy to do that?

I think it's a problem that prisoners share cells and showers with anyone. As I have said several times. Your fight is against trans women, my fight is for prisoner's rights. ⚖️

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 13/07/2026 08:43

think it's a problem that prisoners are sharing cells and showers and fight for a system which would not allow that at all. It is demeaning, undignified and inhumane.

Do you think allowing men to join/watch the women in these shared showers makes their experience better or worse?