Supporting women in prison.

[dylexicdementor11]

I’m delighted to see so many mumsnetters are concerned over the welfare of women in prison. However, I thought it might be good to point out that there are many organizations doing incredible work within women’s prisons.
If you have the time to engage with the it would be wonderful if you could support them and find more information about the issues women are actually facing in prison.

Here are some links that may point you in the right direction.

https://www.womeninprison.org.uk/

I believe it.

No they arent. It is of zero concern or interest to any of the female prisoners i have contact with. Healthcare, their children, housing and education of most concern

Doesn't happen. If you cared about female prisoners, you wouldn't want anyone sharing a cell with anyone else for dignity and privacy reasons.

Oh thank you for the clarification on what you wrote, dyslexia, and all that. 😬

And I’m glad you find have found the resources useful. 😊

I also appreciate concern - from any angle and with any political 'agenda' in mind - for female prisoners.

The transgender prisoners issue and who is being housed in which estate is now resolved, however, so I think that ship might possibly have sailed. It's appropriate that people are now looking into other avenues of support.

But why weren't they always concerned with the issues of most importance for female prisoners?

Why arent there multiple threads about the injustices that happen to female prisoners all the time, but there are multiple threads and mentions of female prisoners in relation to trans issues?

I doubt you're in a position to speak for all female prisoners, now are you?

I think that many of the issues faced by women prisoners are fairly complicated to resolve (trauma, domestic violence experience, substance abuse, SEN, separation from their own families and the impact on the next generation). Men in women’s prisons has been an additional unnecessary issue which has seemed from an outsiders point of view to be straightforward to address - just keep prisons SS. Now that it has been clarified, once it’s clear that FWS has been implemented across the UK it frees up bandwidth for people to engage with other aspects.

I think considering i volunteer for 3 major charities that support female prisoners and have contact with them several times a week as well as experiencing prison myself, I think I'm in a pretty good position to speak.

Have you ever visited a friend or relative in jail? Do you know any women currently in prison personally?

Yes, I agree with you. It’s very bizarre and well I don’t think it has ever been the intention of people who care about trans women and women women’s prisons, etc. but what has ended up happening is that women in prisons and the issues they face have become super seated by a concern with trans women.

So in a roundabout way, campaigners, concerned with transwomen in prisons have in fact, sidelined women in prisons.

But that's not really going to impact on the every day life of female prisoners. The issues you speak of are about why women end up in prison. I am talking about the issues women face as prisoners. There are plenty of those that the prisoners themselves would much prefer you care about.

Putting men in women's prisons - even one - is so egregious that it has naturally attracted concern from women who are generally concerned about the way women's rights have been eroded by men claiming to be women. Your lack of concern for women forced into close proximity with men who fetishise women's vulnerability is concerning. One would hope that all the organisations you have mentioned have robust policies advocating that no women should ever be locked up with men. As this is in line with the law, it shouldn't be difficult.

Apologies for the terrible spelling. 😢

If you cared about men abusing women in prisons, you'd firstly want to ban male POs. Like men who are given power over the most vulnerable women in society, who have legally had some of their human rights removed.

Yup.

Feel free to start threads about the other issues women in prison face. I'm not sure why you're framing it as women shouldn't be concerned about men in women's prisons. It seems odd if you actually care about women in prison.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4glne43101o

No it seems odd to hyperfocus on one issue that female prisoners don't report to be an issue for them.

POs sexually assault women all the time and guess what? Because they are POs, nobody is ever charged. Some of them even start sexual "relationships" with people who are of questionable capacity.

Well you can start a campaign about that then. I've long thought male prison officers should police male prisons and female prison officers should police female prisons. I'll sign the petition if you start one.

I'd ban male POs in female prisons in a heartbeat - it's completely and ridiculously inappropriate. We've known that since Elizabeth Fry's days of campaigning for the rights and protections of female prisoners.

Female prisoners don't support that move as lots of them have had great or at least neutral experiences with some male POs. I think it would be a great move, alas, the masses concerned do not agree. Therefore those of us who are no longer in prison or have never been in have to listen to what they say.

One case I was involved in many years ago concerned a young woman who was self harming on a regular basis.

She had been subjected to sustained sexual abuse throughout her childhood.

In order to prevent her from self harming she was subjected to forced body searches, including cavity searches. The motivation for this was that she might hide weapons in her vagina that she would use to self harm.

She would be pinned down when these searches were performed by both male and female PO’s.

Unfortunately, this happens to women prisoners regularly. This is a sort of thing that women prisoners care about as PP mentions above.

If you are worried about men being in prisons as PP has pointed out, then please consider how many men work in prisons, and the kind of access they have to women prisoners.

I disagree. Prison is not a democracy. While prisoners should be asked their opinions we would have to look at the stats for assault by male staff before making a decision. Individual experiences can't over-ride safeguarding of the female prison population as a whole.

Who is 'they?'

And how do you know they were not always concerned with issues affecting female prisoners?

I ended your brief post at something of a loss.

That's for the government to do. People who want to help actual prisoners rather than play politics listen to what their concerns are. Some were deeply concerned about the idea of staff being all female because just as many had suffered abuse and abandonment from female caregivers. Many of those same people experienced sexual abuse from men at the same time or as a direct result of the neglect and abuse from female caregivers.

They don't view the issue through a gendered lens. They are more inclined to think that anyone who would want power over people who have had their rights stripped away are a bit fucked up anyway.

So they won't see it as men being the issue so much so as anyone who gains that power will misuse it and reducing the workforce by removing all men (who often make up most of the workforce in a prison) will reduce their chances of meeting the angels that were helpful to them and treated them with dignity.

That point is reasonable.

Is there a thread somewhere about this? Or are you suggesting that because this is one area of concern people shouldn't be focused on another?

Sounds very like whataboutery to me.