Supporting women in prison.

[dylexicdementor11]

I’m delighted to see so many mumsnetters are concerned over the welfare of women in prison. However, I thought it might be good to point out that there are many organizations doing incredible work within women’s prisons.
If you have the time to engage with the it would be wonderful if you could support them and find more information about the issues women are actually facing in prison.

Here are some links that may point you in the right direction.

https://www.womeninprison.org.uk/

I advuse you to volunteer for one of these charities, meet female prisoners, and then discuss this with them.
When they tell you that this isn't an issue for them and they want to discuss their actual problems, will you redirect them to this issue that you want to tackle or will you listen to those vulnerable women?

This is assuming that youd ever violuntter with female prisoners at all.

Yes my priorities are female prisoners. Yours seem more revolved around keeping trans women out of places they arent really in anyway.

Would you listen to the female prisoners about what there problems are, or would you decide what their problems are?

It really highlighted just how fixated some people are on their own obsessions to the detriment of vulnerable people.

lol "honestly female prisoners just don't caaare if they're locked up with men" - as I said earlier, embarrassingly transparent especially when you're all over this board listing g that TWAW and we're all big thicky meany bigots for not agreeing they are the must vulnerable ever

I expect the women locked up with Karen white thought it was important but of course no one asked them did they as risk assessments were only ever done on potential risk to the TW rather than on any risk to women

I’m sorry, I don’t believe that’s your priority. I’m sure your time caring about women in prison could be better engaged than arguing with women on Mumsnet about why they should stop campaigning or even just letter writing, donating etc to uphold single sex spaces.

Lol I spend about an hour here a day. Sometimes when i am on my way to a prisoner related errand. I was arguing from Prisoners Abroad just the other day.

I think the person repeating "listen to prisoners" has more compassionate intent towards the prisoners than thise hyoerfocused on an issue that barely exists in this country.

That's how I know you dont know what you're talking about because I've never said TWAW. Silly.

The women locked up with Karen White will hsve.been dodging sexual assault and mistreatment from the POs before Karen got there, and long after Karen leaves.

This idea that women are only vulnerable to abuse in prison when trans women are inmates is ridiculous. It's more that women who are just like you and men who are just like your husband torture them while they are in there because they believe it's their job ti punish prisoners. That is an immediate concern to prisoners.

Their health
Their kids
Their education
Their housing

These are the things they care about

Anyway, have you not noticed yet, that we will prioritise what we wish to, regardless of what the TRA view is? I personally don’t care what TRAs or their mates say about Mumsnet. So your argument is pointless and you’re not getting anywhere.

Whataboutery is the resort of people with zero argument against the thing in question. If TRAs stopped trying to access women’s spaces, and the women who support them for whatever reason stopped supporting them in that, we’d all have a lot more time for important stuff, wouldn’t we?

Why do you spend any time lecturing women here at all?

It’s very interesting to get a window into your mindset. Why do you think @Theeyeballsinthesky would be the one torturing women in prison exactly? And you don’t know whether she has a “husband” how very heteronormative of you 😂

Video is Dr Kate Coleman at a women’s rights rally in Scotland reading out a letter from a female prisoner who had been locked up with men.

Why would women prisoners reveal their true feelings about men in women's prisons when you make it very clear that you don't care about it or acknowledge that it's a problem?

Many of us have had to self censure to protect ourselves from vilification, employment issues and social consequences. Women prisoners are already incredibly vulnerable, it would be awful for them to lose the support of an (otherwise) valuable ally in you in order to raise this point when you make it clear where you stand.

As pp have raised earlier. Hopefully the relatively 'miniscule' number of transwomen in prisons means that this is only a conceptual problem to many prisoners rather then a live issue and it's easy to believe that the women in this position would prioritise other more immediate issues.

I'm curious though, if you have spoken to women who actual live/share space with transwomen prisoners? Or only those (hopefully many) who have never had to deal with this and aren't imagining a large hairy murderer or sex offender sharing the showers with them.

We know that several (we don't know how many) women have been sexually assaulted in prison by transwomen. They have been to court over it and at the time got a shrug basically. What would you say to those women if you came across them in your volunteer work?

Would you tell them to focused on other things because it's such a tiny problem? Would you tell them they should have been more worried about prison guards?

Or would you tell them that the men who raped them were actually women and they should stop saying such awful things about the poor dears.

The video I posted is a letter from FDJ who brought the unsuccessful judicial review after she was sexually assaulted by a male rapist she was locked up with. It’s very damning.

I have not advised you what to do with your time and I suggest you stop trying to tell women who are concerned with the erosion of women's rights by trans ideology (you are on the sex and gender board) what to do with our time.

Deary me you really are desperate aren't you "torturing" yer daft appeth

your posts are on this board for anyone to read and your views on TW are very clear

Err, yes they are clear in the posts where I've shared them..and yes, women are tortured jn prisons. Those of us who actually help prisoners are aware of those various ways.

They aren’t tortured by “women just like” @Theeyeballsinthesky though, that’s blatantly just a silly little smear you decided to throw in because your whataboutery isn’t convincing anyone.

Doesn’t it just.

So you are presuming to speak for every single female prisoner?

Even the victims of this man?

A former female prisoner in Britain has given a graphic account of how she was assaulted by a trans inmate at ­­­HMP New Hall in West Yorkshire, which houses 360 women.
Cheryle Kempton (45) told the Mail on Sunday(MoS) that sex predator Karen White molested four other inmates during a three-month reign of terror in the women’s prison in late 2017.

Even the women and their babies incarcerated with a male paedophile?

I’m not sure why a small sample of women not telling you something means that it is not an issue for any woman? Can they even trust you with that information?

www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/2021/12-december/ex-inmate-gives-account-of-sex-assault-by-trans-prisoner

The organisations i work for collect prisoner views routinely as well as looking at the research done by others that focus on prisoner experiences and outcomes.

That is what helps them decide the best way staff and volunteers can help the prisoners. Much of said research is available publicly.

Trans women in women's prisons never comes up.

Well, yes, women just like you, me and Ariana Grande. Women like us are a source of much abuse to inmates, either as other inmates or prison staff.

Exactly. And let’s not forget that womens prisons were explicitly targeted as a gateway case to ensure removal of single sex spaces more widely.

This was on the basis that prisons were the hardest to justify - they realised that convincing those in authority to force vulnerable women to live in very close proximity to men was going to be hard. Sadly it was not hard enough.

The risk of sexual assault and rape was deemed acceptable, the issue of voyeurism by men wanting to shower with the women was deemed acceptable, the distress felt by women (the vast majority victims of domestic violence and up to 80% suffering a head injury at the hands of men) - absolutely fine for the decision makers. Women being used by the prison service to ‘socialise’ men who think they are women - totally acceptable for the Prison Service and government.

There are many accounts from female prisoners of the problems they have experienced. I ask myself why the report shared by OP doesn’t mention it. If the authors are of the same mind as OP and some PPs here, it is no surprise that either it was mentioned and ‘accidentally’ left out or the women didn’t trust the organisation enough to be honest about their concerns.

That’s pretty poor for an organisation that claims to advocate for women.

So yes, women in a women’s prison are a threat to women because there aren’t any men there (except staff). If there were more men there they would be more of a threat to women, wouldn’t they, because men are demonstrably more threat to women in every sense. Were you under the impression you were making some sort of point?

You’ve been asked several times, with all your boundless “compassion” what you’d say to a woman who was sexually assaulted by a male prisoner who shouldn’t be there. You haven’t answered. Watch that little video I posted.