Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 7

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551375-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-6

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Have the gerbils seen the literal version of Total Eclipse of The Heart

How's that working out then? The duty all seems to be going one way.

I think we've been observing the 'not before the c&p-er' protocol OK recently, I haven't notice anybody getting in ahead of them recently.

From TT:

HH - what are we abt section promotes sex equality and equity and sex discrimination. Driving force sex is binary and immutable?
CA - the PC of sex - as clarified - biological sex.

HH - not abt sex disc (SD)
CA - no. they do post abt sd. It is abt sex. when they post abt men and women, the comments that follow divert it into gender identity.

HH - upset about launch of cross department SEEN p284 - C's post. J - might be helpful to read it again.
Pause while reading.

So was it in a SEEN group, not by EDW but another woman, and also as a response to the definitely wrong slide about the PCs from the EA training?
I'm getting confused here, really wish we could see the stuff they are talking about, because the WSs don't cover it.
But still my impression is HH is trying to paint a possibly unclear response to a definitely wrong-in-law slide as the real problem.

Oh I love that. I daren't show the gerbils though they'll start recreating the whole bloody thing!

At top of page 23 at the moment trying to catch up

Is this a reasonable summary of the next five pages

HH: Waffle, waffle, waffle, waffle, feelings, waffle, unsafe, waffle, feelings, harm, harm, waffle
HH (pointing): Blasspheeeeemer

Can I just skip over them?

HH - upset about launch of cross department SEEN p284 - C's post. J - might be helpful to read it again.
Pause while reading.

No more. Please. Just make it stop.

Depends, have you got to the sex ponds?

.

No.

The literal video version of that always made me lol

Fonzie's been cloned 🎶

RIP Bonnie Tyler

From TT:

HH - clear C is saying C just wants to come to work without having existence and id debated. says - Why do we need to have this convo in workplace?
has GRC and can change birth cert.
CA not disputed.

HH - SEEN wish to refer to her as a man.
CA - very clear not acceptable on our channels. Limiting how they manifest their belief.
HH they want exclude TW from activities.

CA - SSS restricted to biological women.
HH Menopause group activities for example.
CA - seen as female biological function.

HH any other network seeks to challenge Id of colleagues?
CA they are not seeking to challenge.

Something a bit more interesting to read in the meantime:

https://www.trinitychambers.co.uk/barristers/helen-hogben/

CA - no. they do post abt sd. It is abt sex. when they post abt men and women, the comments that follow divert it into gender identity.

Good point, I'm glad she got that on record.

HH they want exclude TW from activities.

What activities. Does he mean going to the toilet?

Never mind, apparently Menopause group is a fun activity.

HH they want exclude TW from activities.
CA - SSS restricted to biological women.
HH Menopause group activities for example.
CA - seen as female biological function.

HH making her client look like a creep now.

The straws are being tightly clutched this afternoon.

From TT:

HH - quotes from SEEN survey 9missed) 81% of SEEN respondents said they felt there was not a sufficiently respectful environment to express there lack of belief in gender identity. We can infer they want to say I don't believe in GI.

HH - so C has a fair point?

CA - SEEN will have to speak for itself. My understanding - they don't believe everyone has a GI. Not they don't believe there are trans people.

HH if yr ust is they don't believe in concept of GI - where does that leave trans people.
CA missed - they understand there are TP who that belief.
HH - same thing they don't believe in TM and TW.

Claimants dont usually have to pay costs - however can be awarded if behaviour is so unreasonable respondents incur extra costs. I'd like to think HH's waffle qualified but unfortunately unlikely.

just a Pool of Drool 😁

Worse, so much worse than that.

This is just nuts. This fellow is hanging around where women are discussing breastfeeding, and menopause. Now he is sticking his oar in about menstruation.

I can’t imagine he would have anything to add to women’s discussion on these topics. In fact, I imagine his presence would put some women off engaging with these groups. It’s like flippin’ sabotage.

HH they want exclude TW from activities.
CA - SSS restricted to biological women.
HH Menopause group activities for example.
CA - seen as female biological function.

How antiquated.

Bonkers that anyone thinks this sort of bollocks strengthens the C position.

HH if yr ust is they don't believe in concept of GI - where does that leave trans people.

In exactly the same spot they were in before they read it. Hopefully sat at their desk doing their fucking job.