Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 7

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551375-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-6

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

HH is being permitted endless space to have what is essentially an ideological debate........... but stating GI beliefs as if they are a priori facts.

I've just skimmed very quickly past most of the day's repetitive dross from HH (throwing no shade on the hardworking C&Pers, who deserve many many thanks!), my eyeballs just can't take the amount of rolling. HH seems to have beamed in from 2018 with her hackneyed old phrases and tropes.

WHY DO OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO BELEIVE IT???????????

The judge didn't let Naomi ask questions on GC v GI beliefs, but by not reining in HH, he has just given her the opportunity to raise them in cross-questioning.

I think the behaviour that is examined in a claim for costs is more the conduct of the litigation: failing to provide documents, agree list of claims with opposing counsel etc. Things that rack up the costs for the other side needlessly and unreasonably. In that case the claimant can be made to pay some of those costs. (EDIT: I wonder if the spreadsheet shenanigans might qualify?)

I don’t think the claimant is judged on the quality of their argument, as long as it’s formatted correctly, presented at the right time, and so on. If their argument is poor - they simply lose the case.

From TT:

CA - MY undst is they accept other people do believe in GI, proposing to undergo (missed) the PC of gender reassignment. What they question is the language and some of the concepts around it.

CA - what gets confused the PC itself and ideas and beliefs that are commonly associated (missed) - what NC described as gender dieologytheories and philosophies associated with each of the PC. All of the characs.

CA - eg disability - absolutely adamant use disabled people or use people with disabilities - diff ideas for diff PCs.

HH p 134 email EW> JC and others

No, women can’t discuss topics only related to female biology without C plonking his arse down in the middle like a cuckoo. The entitlement, and expectation to be indulged is unreal.

HH - same thing they don't believe in TM and TW.

We don't think they are mythical like Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy. WTF is HH on about.

The very foundation of GI rests on a belief.

The PC of Gender - Re-assignment doesn't protect you from having your beliefs questioned; it protects you from discrimination based purely on your PC - such as discrimination in housing, in employment etc

HH if yr ust is they don't believe in concept of GI - where does that leave trans people.

Believing something different?

From TT:

HH - p141$ - info to be put out abt SEEN network.

CA - article they were proposing for intranet for gender equality month.

HH EW responds - on proposed amendments from John Calvert in blue and EW in black.
J - not visible.
HH sorry - in bold - JC response under from EW.
J clarifies.

J - what abt green and purple.
HH not taking you to that.
J - helpful to read in full. is it a chain.
AL - chain goes to 1.420

If atheists don’t believe in God, where does that leave Christians!!?

Solipsism'd out of existence. Poof.

From TT:

Panel reading full thread/exchange/comments. We don't have it in front of us so cannot include here.

.

HH if yr ust is they don't believe in concept of GI - where does that leave trans people.

Exactly where they were before , and that is believing or feeling something about themselves which not everyone either agrees with, or validates..

Exactly - swap in any religious belief with belief in GI and it's clear what utter bollocks this whole line of thinking about being erased is. GI requires everyone else to follow their belief so they don't get erased, no other religion/belief requires that.

I understand that there are many faith based networks within the CS.

Must be carnage.

In a nebulous cloud that can only be detected by enthusiastic use of dog whistles.

HH EW responds - on proposed amendments from John Calvert in blue and EW in black.
J - not visible.
HH sorry - in bold - JC response under from EW.
J clarifies.
J - what abt green and purple.
HH not taking you to that.

'what abt green and purple' indeed, Judge💚💜

Atheists brought about the Rapture, you heard it here first

FarmersBlonde · Today 10:21

My bil is mostly on the trans train (he accepts that TW shouldn’t be in female only spaces to some extent). We saw him at the weekend and he is now saying menopause is psychosomatic and that women are thinking they have the symptoms because they’ve read or heard about them and think they should have them. 🤯 I said if you’re talking about the people with cocks that you think are women they’re not going to have a fecking menopause. Luckily the other adults were completely on my side and we all just took the piss out of him. It’s probably going to be the next way they’ll try and diminish our experiences.

Yet he remains inexplicably unpunched...

J - what abt green and purple.
HH not taking you to that.

Cos they are transphobic colours.

And if we don't believe in fairies, Tinkerbell will die...

We're in the realms of madness.

@MyAmpleSheep I'd like to think repeating the same argument 220 times (or more, think I fell asleep) and therefore making a hearing go part heard would qualify for a cost award. It's not about her case, it's about the repetition and delay. I accept it wont though.