Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 3

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5548369-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-2

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

ST: More than two posts - we've only got two mumsnet posts here, there would have been a lot more.

And...how would you know that for sure? Is it the real know, or the imaginary 'you know'?

From TT:

HH: What concerned you about the post?
ST: These were obviously colleagues in DEFRA, and they have means of communicating with the network, suggests external ppl / orgs sharing DEFRA posts, bringing attention to posts here and what stems from that.

HH: Back to mod log. Want to clarify the rows that you were talking about. You were asked about logs re uneven moderation, you referred to row 45. If we look at those lines - what is the content here where you say 'uneven'

ST: [sounds uncertain]
HH: I have already asked about this I think - will move on J
HH: You didn't have logs when this came up -
AL [some intervention]
J: I am v confused about what C is being asked.

HH: Now you have log in front of you. Re uneven moderation, is there anything you want to draw attention to.
AL: This is too open-ended.

My note: Suspect HH isn't actually on ST's side, other than contractually?

From TT:

HH: I believe you were asked about row 55
ST: Yes
HH: When we look at this, the left col is numbers - 55 - it's slightly above the row. When you were talking about 55, what content did you mean?

ST: The one underneath it, must be.

AL: Can we identify text so we are all sure?
ST: "In addition to this ..."

Just to be super-pedantic shouldn’t this be Interruptatron??

I was thinking HH sounds more like a cross examiner rather than the client’s own representative.

J: You are saying that what is under 55 is 56?
ST: Yes

Arguably the most sensible exchange of the day

The unbelievable minutiae! Just to try to prop up some deluded man's grievances and fantasies!

@fanOfBen ‘My note: Suspect HH isn't actually on ST's side, other than contractually?’

If someone else hired, and is paying HH to represent The Tempest, I wonder who the client is - the payer of the piper, or the claimant?

From TT:

J: You are saying that what is under 55 is 56?
ST: Yes

HH: You were also asked about your WS para 118 which discusses this.
ST: Yes
HH: Asked about 47 and 50, re comment expressing support for trans ppl being removed, mentioning "tone".

HH: If we look at 47 and 50 in the mod log, can you help us which content, to check our line numbers - 47?
ST: AM "you can believe what you like"
HH: And 50? the words?
ST: "Anything you believe there"

Definitely. I struggle with my body evey single day, but that's because of rheumatoid arthritis. I was also a happy tomboy, who now sometimes wears dresses by choice in hot weather but otherwise lives in trousers and tops without fastenings! Plus, I don't need to be recognised to exist. I'm not Tinkerbell.

Me too. 63,000 people in front of me! Im thinking about doing the super off peak time slot!

You’ll have to take that one up with Boiled - I just post the thing when needed…

If counsel, judge, and all the Tribunal Tweet people (👏thank you!) don't go straight from here into three gins each, I'd be amazed!

HH is struggling to get his witness to come up with anything solid.

I merely replicated the requestees spelling when asked to make a sign last year.

"Hi **, pls could you do a picture of a sign that says "Do not engage with the interruptaron"

Spellcheck costs an extra Tunnock's

Is HH not female Helen Hogben ?

From TT:

HH: you were asked about the gender / intersex guidance - AL said all policies must be read with others, and none can override principles of communication, you said the EDI explcitly does, page [missed]

HH: 1458

HH: Email from you to David Hallam et al re 2nd grievance, you refer to new EDI guidance, is this what you say explicitly overrules?
ST: Yes I say there is already clear policy in place that should restrict GC expression

J: And the effect is?
ST: That GC expression is already restricted in the Civil Service.

HH: NC put to you that you cd not point to evidence that EDW threatened to bring ET case - p140 (email begins p139)

I am a bit behind, and have just got to this bit:
J: They knew staff wd not behave like grrown ups?
which made me proper cackle.

So basically, nobody is willing to take responsibility for this linguistic outrage! One department passes on the blame to another department! Typical! No wonder the country is in the state it's in!
😁

Yes, she is female.

Ask me how I know.

In my head I'm reading it as Hulk Hogan.

Yes, she's a barrister from the North East

How do you know?

Too right!

A beetle needs to eat.