Draft Conversion Practices Bill - published

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/draft-conversion-practices-bill

Seems difficult to align some of the messaging

The Cass Review concluded that social transition in childhood and adolescence is an active psychological intervention rather than a neutral act

But also

Its impact assessment says abuse may include conduct that “degrades or manipulates an individual”, or controls their movements or finances, whether alone or in combination

Who gets to decide if an 'active psychological intervention' actually 'manipulates an individual'?

The bottom line is that most professionals will change policies and avoid at all costs working with someone who has a gender issue anywhere in their needs. To be fair, it's going to be pretty stupid to do otherwise. Who'll lose out?

Well that would be trans people in need of care and services.

Thanks for the link, how widespread is the support for the Evidence-Based Social Work Alliance, because that's one profession that seems to be completely corrupted by this ideology.
Given that they are the ones who deal with vulnerable children all the time, the fact that so many social workers are genderist's has always been alarming.

Possibly not exactly the right place to post this, because seems to be purely about Scotland and not the UK government's Draft Bill, and so far I have no other context. Perhaps someone in the know can fill us in? Is this significant?

From Stonewall today:

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/news/stonewall-responds-to-the-scottish-governments-renewed-programme-for-government

Stonewall responds to the Scottish Government's renewed programme for Government

At a time when LGBTQ+ rights are under threat and we are in a significant period of turbulence and hostility, it is essential that all governments across the UK work to advance LGBTQ+ equality. We welcome the Scottish Government's renewed commitment to ending conversion practices in their Programme for Government.

Governments now need to move at pace to ensure robust and effective legislation to ban conversion practices is brought forward. It is vital that concerns from LGBTQ+ people from all parts of the UK are heard and addressed in the legislative process. [my bold]

Swinney said something about being committed to ending conversion in conjunction with the other UK governments, or if necessary by introducing a Scottish bill. Sounds as though Stonewall are choosing to spin this positively. Here's the Scottish Greens' negative spin
https://greens.scot/news/pfg-greens-slam-unacceptable-watering-down-of-conversion-practice-ban

And here's the official page (btw does anyone else have the problem of being unable to type a colon into a mumsnet window, despite there being no problem in other tabs of the same browser? it's weird)
https://www.gov.scot/policies/lgbti/ending-conversion-practices/

I think, on the whole, there's nothing to worry about here for now.

Well if the this load of cobblers is true then good on the Scottish government (for a change).
All those words and not one of them shows how this bill is necessary, they need to start proving that all this 'conversion' is going on before they get on their high horse about banning non existing events.

Thanks for all that! Looks as though the last real push was the consultation from Jan 2024, so, as you say, probably Stonewall looking for things to make public statements about, and running with the "nothing."

Well, I suppose we'll see eventually if they plan to take it further.

Stonewall responds to the Welsh Government's renewed programme for Government

from 23 September 2026

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/news/stonewall-responds-to-the-welsh-governments-renewed-programme-for-government-2

"We are pleased to hear the Welsh Government's commitment to supporting the UK Government to take forward a fully-inclusive ban on conversion practices. It is vital that voices from survivors across Wales are heard throughout the legislative process."

Will that include hearing the people from the affected communities who have a LOT of issues with this bill and think it's a walking nightmare that will cause a lot of problems, stress, distress and very obviously easily foreseen consequences and end up doing more harm than any good?

Thought not.

Conversion Practices Bill is a licence for trouble - Sonia Sodha
Andy Burnham needs to ditch toxic legislation that threatens the rights of women and parents
https://www.skipthepaywall.com/read?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.com%2Fcomment%2Fcolumnists%2Farticle%2Fconversion-practices-bill-trans-rights-vz0qkbfqz

Excellent article. Sonia lays out the issues with absolute clarity.

I think what is worrying is that this isn't get much public scrutiny and have a bad feeling it will just slip through.

Another sign that many newsoutlets are still in the grip of TRAs.

The bill was covered on this week's episode of Double Jeopardy. The two hosts were joined by Sarah Vine KC to discuss it

It was a sobering listening, but I'm glad Sarah Vine is on the case. They said the bill is likely to get a lot more scrutiny in the coming months (and hopefully media attention). A joint committee (both houses) will start scrutinising the bill and will report on it in January.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0uNsrFvCO7XCbhFELfQn30?si=ciq8uRT_TiSy4EtXNJ4xlA&utm_source=copy-link

Thanks for the info, I'll download it to listen to later.
I've got all my fingers and toes crossed that the scrutiny will reveal it to be such a bad idea nobody will vote for it, except the usual suspects of course. At this point there's nothing we can do about them but call them out on their batshitery. I hope the joint committees will be fair and balanced. 🤞

Thank you - off to listen. Also very pleased that legally we're in a completely different position to a few years ago where trans lobbyists demands were usually met.

Now we've got not just a sceptical public, but a raft of great legal minds and numerous groups focussing on safeguarding children and the vulnerable, willing and able to challenge all this deceitful fuckwittery.

Thanks for starting the thread.

This bill is frightening.

The #BinTheBill Campaign Group is the nearest thing to a Coalition. Founder members were prompted into action at the WDI 2026 Conference in July after hearing Alison Jenner's presentation, "Problems with the Proposed Conversion Practices Bill".

The Campaign is led by a re-grouping of some familiar faces under the banner of "Reality Not Labels"; the website and email list are run by WDI and the Campaign has now gathered representatives from all the Groups listed on the Bin The Bill website - and more.

The #BinTheBill Campaign Group is active on social media and has been preparing materials and information for a Day of Action on Sat 24th Oct. As usual with these things, everything is being done for free and all the materials are funded out of our own pockets.

As you probably already know, a Pre-legislative Scrutiny Committee is currently considering the Draft Conversion Practices Bill (England & Wales) promised in the Labour Party Election Manifesto. It will be inviting submissions very soon, in the next few days or weeks:

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/scrutiny-starts-on-the-draft-conversion-practices-bill/

The Scrutiny Committee is worryingly weighted towards the Stonewall view of the world and only requires two members to be quorate!

If this Bill ends up being scheduled for debate in Parliament then nothing can stop it being passed into law. It was in the Labour Party Manifesto so Labour MPs will be whipped to vote for it and it will carry.

"Stonewall Law" will actually become law - Criminal Law - and the penalty will be up to 5 years in prison.

However, everything that could be considered an abusive conversion practice is already a criminal offence, which is why Conversion Therapy ended in the UK decades ago. The victims were gay men and lesbians - not "LGBT people".

This was back when "Queer" was a slur, when "Queer Bashing" was the "sport" of hunting down and beating up gay men and what was then known as "Aversion Therapy" involved administration of electric shocks and vomit-inducing drugs under medical supervision.

"Transgender people" were not subjected to the state-sanctioned torture of Aversion Therapy because back then there were no "transgender people", just transsexuals and transvestites. Transsexuals were provided with NHS services to assist their "transition", not electric shocks, while transvestites were annoying their neighbours by stealing bras and knickers off washing lines and out of launderette driers.

There are no "Conversion Practices" left to ban so that is not what this Bill actually aims to ban. What this Bill seeks to do is criminalise conversations between family members, between therapists and clients, between teachers, social workers and other professionals and children. There is no lower age limit so it would criminalise children - siblings and other children who refuse, or omit, to affirm the "transgender identity" of another child or an adult.

It is no secret that Stonewall is behind this. Stonewall's "No Debate!" campaign failed because it could not enforce "No Debate!".

This time, if the Draft Bill survives the Scrutiny Committee, which is heavily weighted in Stonewall's favour, "No Debate!" will be enforced - in the criminal courts and family courts.

There is an active thread on FWR here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5587311-5587311-binthebill-campaign-and-day-of-action-bin-the-draft-conversion-practices-bill-england-wales

Also a thread on the Mumsnet Petitions and Activism Board here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/5588806-5588806-bin-the-draft-conversion-practices-bill-england-wales

There is very little time left to act so please join the #BinTheBill Campaign against the Draft Bill 🙏

We need to help MPs and Councillors understand that the Bill as drafted will help precisely no one, while threatening to criminalise parents, break up families and harm children.

All the information you need and more is on the #BinTheBill Linktree:
https://linktr.ee/binthebill

It’s so scary how ill informed our legislators are in relation to this.

No kidding. I explained much of the points of BantheBill's excellent post to my Labour MP, who in essence said they were voting for it because yay, peace and love and cookies and little kittens. They did not want to look at the oncoming truck of reality because nice feelz, and they did not want me spoiling the vibe by pointing out the oncoming truck. Facts not something they like much.

Since your MP is nonbinary, no wonder they supported it.

Er.... not sure how you feel you know who my MP is, but no, they're not? Unless that's a wry joke that I didn't specify their sex...

I think it was because you used the word they, so I'm going with joke.

That's reminding me of learning through MN that in Spanish, as a gendered language (and presumably other European languages too?), the word 'non-binary' comes in both masculine and feminine versions. It's a mad old world, all right.

Yes exactly.

were politicians always this lacking in critical thought?

Yes that came up at the Roz Adams Edinburgh rape crisis centre tribunal didn’t it?