Draft Conversion Practices Bill - published

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/draft-conversion-practices-bill

What about the Cotton Ceiling lot? That's an attempt at interfering with somebody's sexual orientation.

Isn't it? Just appalling, filling kids' heads with this nonsense.

Those books were just a random 3. They are all over the place. It woukd be useful to make a list and publicise it.

It’s incredibly disappointing but not surprising that a publisher for children’s books should possess nil knowledge about developmental psychology or actual biology.

I’m picturing some 21 year old editor feeling virtuously smug for commissioning these books to ‘reassure’ children and teens it’s all normal. Yet contributing to harming those very same children and teens, possibly permanently.

If you want to see real ‘Conversion Practices’ in operation, see this thread for an example. What has been happening in this school is full-on trans grooming of very young children:
Should a 6 year old be taught that it’s normal to be trans, in a PSHE lesson?
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5547773-should-a-6-year-old-be-taught-that-its-normal-to-be-trans-in-a-pshe-lesson?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

You do realize, don't you, that I don't read your posts anymore? Not a one. So, you can save a bit of time now.

It is looking more and more that this badly written bill will see considerable amendment if not outright failure.

Very useful threads:

Dennis Noel Kavanagh
1/ Just collecting together my threads and YouTube video on the (pretty awful and quite strange) draft Conversion Bill, (I suspect there will be more and I'll add them here). First, here's my initial reaction to the general shape of the bill:

https://nitter.net/Jebadoo2/status/2070900767272083787#m

Sarah Phillimore on the bill it seems the foxbasher is not impressed:

https://sarahphillimore.substack.com/p/the-conversion-practices-bill

Thanks for this, @fromorbit
It does look like just about everyone hates it! Should be interesting to see what Burnham does with it, as it looks as though it will be Burnham.

Just seen this, sorry if already posted. I'm shocked at Hilary Cass's attitude in the H of Lords debate, it's grotesque. Just listen to the video clip in Venice's tweet.
From Venice Allen
x.com/i/status/2071005661551362248

Cass asks if politicians or doctors should decide for 11 yr old boy who was transed at 2.5 yrs by his parents and now has weak bones because he rarely leaves his bedroom.
Their answer is politicians, who must criminalise this abuse. He needs help, not puberty blockers!!!

Oh that clip now makes massive sense of the draft (still not approved) KCSIE guidance for schools which has a special section for children 'living in stealth' and which is clearly about this child. Policy made around individuals is generally bad policy.

But what to do about that poor boy. Awful situation that I'm not sure is retrievable.

This is a sort of horror story.

Those parents are guilty of causing terrible harm through using conversion practices on a toddler. And so are those who made them think that way.

Their answer is politicians, who must criminalise this abuse. He needs help, not puberty blockers!!!

In the clip, the woman responding to Cass say that case is not a matter for politicians, it should be for clinicians to decide. My impression of Cass, is that she’s implying the boy ought to have PBs and CSHs because he’ll never live as a boy again ie someone to be enrolled in the PB trial.

It’s a bizarre deflection from the nub of the issue, which is that as the parents socially transitioned their boy at 2 1/2 years old, it ought to be neither political or clinician, but rather a police matter. That poor child. Cass clearly believes there are ‘trans’ children but that they are rare. That’s disappointing.

Agree, @DrBlackbird . Once you come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a 'trans child', as I and many other Mumsnetters have been convinced of, it all falls into place.

Do you think she really thinks this is a rare trans child? It seems so clear and obvious that he was made trans by his parents.

I thought she might have meant that what’s done is done, the child can’t go back now, he is living in torment and the only way forward is to carry on facilitating further transing so he can live a ‘normal’ life as the girl he was told he was for 8 years.
Perhaps she thinks it is unlikely he could be rehabilitated and helped to have a fresh start and be the boy he was meant to be.

Thanks for the link, I'm with DK, I think GI and 'trans' is the conversion therapy, I hope that view gets pick up and repeated over and over. It needs to be made clear to the muppets in parliament that its 'transing' the gay away, then maybe some of the Labour MP's will grow a backbone and not vote for it.

Yes, I thought 'was transed by his parents' made her perception of the situation clear.

She is clearly (and probably unfortunately) rightly worried about what will happen to him if he goes through puberty. If he is already physically stunted through not leaving the house, then puberty blockers may be the lesser of two evils? It's certainly not a call I would want to have to make. They have ethics boards that can consider this sort of thing, there was a programme on the radio years ago that went through an ethics board's deliberation about various cases and it was really interesting and thoughtful.

Sex Matters summary

What happens next?
Ministers have opted for the slow track: the draft bill will be sent for pre-legislative scrutiny by a joint committee. This gives parliamentarians, clinicians, parents and teachers a vital window to influence what happens next.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/draft-conversion-practices-bill-threatens-parents-with-jail-time/

Summary of how joint committees work

A joint committee in Parliament is a select committee comprising members from both the House of Commons and the House of Lords.

These committees pool parliamentary resources to conduct investigations, scrutinize government policy, review draft bills, and oversee technical legislation.

Key Characteristics

Membership: Drawn proportionally from both Houses, acting as a single committee with one chair.

In Parliament, the members of a Joint Committee are decided by each individual House—the House of Commons and the House of Lords.

The membership is determined by the following process:

Proportional Representation: Each political party is allocated a number of seats proportional to their representation in Parliament.

House of Commons: MPs are selected through internal party processes (often overseen by party whips), and their names are put forward to the Committee of Selection, which then presents a motion to the House for approval.

House of Lords: Members are recommended by the House of Lords Committee of Selection.

Final Approval: Both Houses must agree to the final membership lists for the Joint Committee.

Procedure:
They typically follow House of Lords procedure and can often meet virtually or hybrid.

Function:
They conduct inquiries, request evidence, and publish reports that hold the government to account

Implications
So this all means that TAs are unlikely to have full control. There will be conservative members and especially from the House of Lords expert lawyers who will be sceptical of this badly designed bill. It will be interesting to see who Labour party whips choose to try to put on the committee. Obviously some ,ministers like Olivia Blake will be looking to push a more TA line.

As the recent motion on blocking the EHRA has shown in the Commons full on TA believers are very much in the minority.

When the committee is formed expert witnesses will be called these now will inevitably include people from Sex Matters, LGB alliance and religious groups plus medical experts who will want to ensure therapists are protected even more.

The draft bill is likely to undergo significant alteration. In particular parents are likely to get special protection.

WTF.

'Child (or children) is brainwashed by parents and is essentially a prisoner in the family home' is something that does happen every now and again for different reasons. I remember a more recent one due to fears of Covid.

What the hell have the parents been telling their child to make them so terrified? Plus what have they been letting them read on the internet?

That poor child. They obviously know they are male because of the fear of being outed but because it’s all been kept as a big secret they are now in a position where both their mental and physical health is being affected. This is where it all falls apart because attempts to hide a person’s sex and keep secrets will inevitably fall apart at some point and children are no way prepared to cope.

I thought she might have meant that what’s done is done, the child can’t go back now, he is living in torment and the only way forward is to carry on facilitating further transing so he can live a ‘normal’ life as the girl he was told he was for 8 years.

Because that worked so well when John Money recommended doing something similar to David Reimer...

This child is not going to live a "normal" life either way. So the only right thing to do is to help him live as close to normal a life as possible, which means letting him go through his normal puberty with as much support as possible.

I agree, I can't see how the only way forward is to continue down the road of torment, I can't even see how that's justified as an option.

Instead of what's done is done, it time for enough is a fucking enough.

He can be helped he's only 8, it will take the right type of professionals to do it but he can be helped.

He's 11, but was socially transitioned at 2 1/2 years old. So has been lied to for 8 years.

I just don't understand. How can a 2 year even communicate that they are in "the wrong body"? Why do some professionals go along with this idea that a toddler can be trans? It's mind boggling.

I honestly doubt it has anything to do with the kid, and everything to do with the parents.

Thank you I missed that, but I'm still outraged that they're seemingly abandoning him, even if he's now 11 not 8.