NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #57

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to:
[email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 28 September 2025 to 21 November 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55 19 November 2025 to 8 December 2025
Thread 56: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5456749-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-56 8 December 2025 to 9 December 2025

One of our legal experts might weigh in but I wonder whether this is to do with the technical legal distinction between "credibility" and "reliability"? As I understand it, credibility is to do with whether the witness is attempting to tell the truth; reliability is to do with whether they are actually providing true information. See e.g.
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/gennassessing-credibility.pdf

Though actually, searching through the document suggests Upton is regarded as reliable, as well as credible, so, shrug?

Aaahhh!

Its seems one of my clients has been following the Sandie case
and now thinks he can get rid of the single sex provision for toilets ( large new build for 900 people )

Just spent an afternoon explaining moon cups to 16 rather embarrassed and fidgety men
🤣

I think I may have won them over. If I haven’t I don’t care, I’ve told them we are not insured to ignore the regs

Id like to say a big Thankyou to these threads as I’d never heard of mooncups ( I am a woman ) till I read about them on here

Since the law protects transgender individuals and prevents discrimination against them, it would be quite wrong of the court to find that someone is not credible simply because they claim to be female when they are biologically male. Upton's apparent tampering with the phone evidence and the fact that other witnesses to one of the alleged clinical incidents disagreed with him was a much greater threat to his credibility than his claim to be a woman.

Upton didn't just claim to have a gender identity as woman, though: he claimed, under oath, to be a biological female.

Wings has done a good article:
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-valley-of-the-dolls/

He points out that the judge misquotes FWS by leaving out the "trans" from "transwoman"...

Jaipurs, I do enjoy a good Wings rant. Especially when thon wee hallion Ross Greer wanders intil the crossfire.

Excellent, thank you. Grounds for appeal and the path of the appeal laid out clearly: the judgment is simply legally wrong when compared to the SCJ. It's that straight forward. All set out there with the comparative paragraphs.

Also appreciate the point made that in appeal exactly what the SCJ means practically is going to be 'jumped all over in hobnail boots'. Which is not going to be nice because it's going to mean stating the most unpopular and unpalatable points to activists very bluntly indeed, but women didn't start all this. And frankly it now is important to do if the govt aren't going to try and force out an equally astounding mess of guidance against the actual law.

I am aware of that. From the court's perspective, that does not automatically mean they will regard him as an unreliable witness.

Evidently, as they didn't. Sigh. We have a long way to go. Never mind, on we go.

Sorry to be a pain, I’m trying to understand what has happened in the ruling but getting bogged down by so many men commenting that it has been proved that Sandie was the bully and has lost most of her claims. This can’t be right surely? Can anybody sensible explain please, I can’t face reading that massive document of legal speak!!

As a gender critical, uncontrolled epileptic who would need (literally life saving) rescue meds starting five minutes after commencement of seizure that doesn’t stop, I have real skin in the game here. I would be (“pleased” sounds the wrong word but anyway) pleased if something positive for all women, could come from something awful like my death in a toilet! It sounds terribly dramatic but I know you know the statistics. Feel free to DM me, we have “spoken” about this before I think. (At the moment it’s a struggle as I have to use disabled toilets, but also need someone with me, usually DH. If there are no disabled toilets he has to hover outside the womens toilets and it’s awful for both of us).

Ok. Found the coroner and sent the stuff. That was very upsetting to do (for personal reasons) but I know it’s the right thing. I want everyone safe.

Sorry @Keeptoiletssafethat was an unfortunate simultaneous posting.

Thank you for your story. In tears now because the one I sent to the coroner was a bit too close to a situation I had.

If the building is in England, all he needs to know is Doc T of the building regs, surely?

I have Doc T on speed-dial, but I don't know what the equiv is in Scotland, Wales and NI.

It would be great if somebody could find and post links to these - do they differ significantly from Doc T, I wonder?

Doc T is crystal clear about separate single sex toilets being the standard, as long as there's enough space for them, mixed sex ones being an optional extra if there's enough space, money and inclination. But that's just England..

I am really very sorry @keeptoiletssafe. You do amazing work. I’m sorry you are upset

Here’s a manufacturer’s video which shows why we need single sex toilets with door gaps for health and safety (not grim):

I still don't get why he was regarded as credible/reliable when he doctored (no pun intended) the supposedly contemporaneous notes on his phone.
And why has the fact that he chose to go to a nurses changing room and not one for drs been ignored.

Well, if he reads that, I think the judge can consider himself well and truly telt!
Wonderful, energising and encouraging stuff

It’s more than fine. I want to raise awareness of health and safety.
I honestly wouldn’t had thought this is what I would be campaigning for but I know what will happen to more people at their most vulnerable if we enclose all designs.

Very sorry that you are upset, thank you for all you do, especially when it is at such a cost as it has personal echoes for you.

Judge causes yet more confusion, misinformation and muddle to employers and businesses and the general public.

Not helpful in any way.

Because he's a man.

Sending you support and good wishes, WelcomeToDecemberItGetsWorseHereEveryDay

Posters have in the past questioned why accessible toilet are mixed sex: this is why - to allow carers to assist a user, even if they are of the opposite sex.

I really, really needed to read that.

Hoping this is another Forstater - and we know how that turned out in the end.