"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 2

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.

The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany

Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

I remember reading years ago about stats about the kids referred to the Tavistock. A high percentage of them were in the autism spectrum which I think didn't surprise any of the women here. What did surprise me is the high proportion who had a parent convicted for sex assault.

I have an early meeting this morning, so here is your daily reminder ahead of the live session:

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

@MyrtleLion please focus on getting lots of rest and get well soon. Sometimes the antibiotics themselves can make you feel grotty too.

With reference to TT, live pasting is the same as retweeting their posts. Commenting on the TT posts is like quote tweeting. This is why we can post here and comment on their posts.

Thanks for all your messages of support. It really helps ❤️

Myrtle I'm glad you're home but sorry to hear you are feeling so poorly. Don't worry about post the tweets, just concentrate on getting better. Are you taking plenty of vit D? A high dose really helps your immune system.

Still WFTCHTJ

As are TT

From TT

10:15. We have not been admitted. We have no information about what may be happening in the Tribunal. Observers and press are seldom admitted to discussions between the EJ and the legal teams.

From TT

We have been admitted, the hearing room is empty; no legal teams or spectators as yet.

Oh, so now it looks like Siobhan Sinclair is to give evidence over teleconference I think when last week she'd asked to withdraw.

From TT

We have sound, some technical issues with a witness, Siobhan Sinclair, SS, who will be joining remotely.
J - SS is in the lobby, one of the issues with admitting her, is that she will pop up on the screen, I'm not sure she can disengage her camera on her mobile. My worry is

she may pop up on the screen and it will be a distraction.
NF - my concern is that my practice is saying how long everything takes,
J - when do we expect to hear from Sharen Trevarrow (ST)
SC - if it helps, I expect qs for SS to be brief, not that I have a WS from her

From TT

J - can we get a message to SS asking her to turn her camera off? If not, she can disconnect and reconnect later. That shouldn't delay us.
NF - okay
J -anything further;
SC, NF - no
J - recalls MG, she swears,
NF - you wish to correct something you said on Friday
s
MG - I had a dispute with the Trust about hours that I owed, after 18 months it was agreed that I didn't owe them.
J - did you agree something
MG - I was off, looking after parents, it was a lot of us
J - it was a collective g/x
MG - yes
J - that's fine, you can take your seat

From TT

J - next witness Tracey Hooper, TH, she affirms
NF - takes her to WS, agrees her signature, best of knowledge and belief true
TH - yes
NF - please speak up and direct your answers to the Tribunal, takes her to plan of CR, identifies TH locker,
TH - yes, that's my locker

Morning all

From TT

NF - next, docs you put into RP (resolution procedure), [witness finds doc]
NF - your statement, dated 16/10 2024, prepped for RP?
TH - yes
NF - same bundle, are those the answers you gave to qs put to you by SW? (SW - Sue Williams)
TH - yes
NF - now takes to plan of ward, etc

Morning @chilling19 😀

From TT

NF - in your WS, you talk about witnessing RH walking onto your ward, down the corridor and back again, using the plan, (take it out of bundle) can you indicate where you were,
TH - [does so]
J - does it have a number
TH - [takes plan to J (offscreen)] to show him

From TT

J - Bo2, that's Bay 2 is it?
TH - yes
NF - describe what you saw
TH - RH walking all the way down the corridor, around and back again, and then turned around and walked back the same way
NF - no more qs from me
J - near where it says alternative locker room?
TH - yes

From TT

J - we've seen a photo of that corridor, what is a bay is it a room
TH - it's a room, I came out, by the time I came out RH was coming back round the corner
J -[confirms with witness]
SC - on alternative LR, J
J - it's in red
SC - I've got it
SC - before I start, looking at wits over the weekend, I think I can take them more quickly
J - no one has ever complained
SC - you've been working in the trust since (?) and a band 5,
TH - yes
SC - you're in the same role as some of other Cs
TH - yes

SC said he'd be able to cross-examine the remaining claimants more quickly than he'd been doing up to now.

From TT

SC - going straight to RH in female CR, you became aware in summer 2023
TH - yes
SC - why were you unaware of RH in the CR before that time
TH - in 2019, RH was a student, would have spent time in uni, and then Covid, training may have been pushed back
SC - thats fair
SC - you say, you've been in CR with RH on several occasions but no personal interaction, your locker in different area
TH -yes
SC - during your shift or at end of shift
TH - during shift, popped back to my locker
SC - so no personal interactions
TH - no

Good morning, everyone.

Thank you to @ikky .

A special good morning to @MyrtleLion:
I hope you had a long healing sleep last night and that you can have a day gently recovering day today.

From TT

SC - you are relying on what other's said
TH - yes
SC - you said you spoke to A Quinn informally in break room about your concerns
TH - yes
SC - her role?
TH - a band 6
SC - what did you expect to happen after this informal convo
TH - I know that others had expressed concerns, I expected f/u with sisters and management
SC - fine, [directing to bundle], here is the letter, you signed,
TH - yes
SC - you know what it says
TH - yes
SC - repeat 2nd para, RH stopping female hormones

From TT

SC - how did you know that
TH - describes hearing from colleagues who worked with RH
SC - and you felt comfortable to sign the letter
TH - yes
SC - why
TH - I felt that with everything that was going on it had to be brought to the attention of management and action taken
SC - [back to WS], para 19, 15 April, Clare Gregory had meeting with Tracy Atkinson, other, CG comes along and says what she's been told.
TH - yes in the ward huddle
SC - where was that
TH - every morning, after we've dealt with patients, we get together to discuss things

From TT

SC - how many people approximately
TH - maybe 10
SC - and you didn't attend May meeting
TH - no, my children were ill
SC - all of the Cs have referred to things that other people have told them, we can't ask them, they aren't hear but want to ask you about what Mr Hornby said
SC - does he know you're saying he said this, have you asked him
TH - no
SC - and we don't have a statement from him
SC - were you one of the group of Cs that decided to inform the media,
TH - yes, I was
SC - did you have any understanding that TA had stated various steps

From TT

that the Trust was going to take
TH - yes, it was relayed to me, it seemed no sense of urgency, it had been a year, nothing had been done, nothing done to protect us
SC - what did you want protection from
TH - a biological man in our CR
SC - what did you want the Trust to do
TH - remove RH from our CR
SC - you don't dispute that RH had the right to raise g/x under the Trust policy
TH - no
SC - you saw this as retribution
TH - yes
SC - has anything happened to you?
TH - no
SC - it has been some time
TH - yes, but lets see what happens when the

From TT

tribunal was over
SC - but nothing has happened yet
TH - letter, i/x, disciplinary
SC - you wrote and said you wouldn't participate in RP
TH - yes
SC - so you didn't participate and you didn't dispute the outcome
TH - no
SC - now onto RH walking onto your ward,
TH - yes
SC - CH said that RH did this every couple of weeks but you've only seen once
TH - yes, that's correct
SC - you say you approached ortho colleagues to ask if RH had approached them for patient info