NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #51

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 50: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5387893-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-50 7 August 2025 to 1 September 2025

Well, it's a good point. If a doctor changes their name e.g. through marriage or divorce, do they get a new registration?

Can any doctors advise?

JR DU's life is being shaped by the prejudices of someone else.
Hmmm...
but something resembling an interesting point from JR is worth noting.

Trouble is, it's only an interesting point if you accept that it's mere prejudice that makes SP not want to undress in front of a man. Or that mere prejudice is the reason that she sees a man when she sees Dr Upton. Supreme Court says no.

Plus if you base your self-image on other people's validation of it...

From TT

This illustrates that certain aspects of C's claim are founded upon points that are at best, inherently unlikely. One can understand that a suggestion might be made by a campaigner holding GC views. That doesn't mean it is true.

JR - I'm going to move on to permission use the CR. But is this a good time for a break?

Steno - it's very hot.

J - let's take a short break now. Court rises.

Souunds like it to me.

Me too, and I'm glad no one is playing her game!

I think she should face some kind of sanction for it though, it's so unprofessional and unbecoming conduct of a KC

From herald (nb am just going out so this is the last one I can transfer today if anyone else wants to take over?) link here:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25430097.live-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-closing-submissions/

2:53pm
Ms Russell says the board clearly took the plea that there was no coherent reason to exclude Dr Upton.
"Up until the claimant, nobody had complained, and nobody has complained since, despite the media attention, which has been almost uniformly positive and supportive [of Ms Peggie]. One would think that this provided a rather encouraging backdrop to those who share her views and want to come forward."

She's pronouncing it roughly as if it were a German surname.

I don't know whether it is, though I can't find a surname spelled like that in any German directory.

Heaven knows why JR does this.

I'm in !!!! Yay. Took nearly an hour though.

Didn’t BU take away SP’s choice of being able to use a female changing room when he made the choice to intrude on women’s privacy in the female changing room?

She adds: "We do not insist on strict equality in every circumstance because we make certain accommodations in particular contexts where there is a coherent reason for doing so, it's a balancing act, and it always has been, both pre and post For Women Scotland."

Exactly a balancing of rights and remarkably, JR, women have rights and the right to single sex facilities is one of them.

TT's 3rd afternoon tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1962501608215924774.html

I'm getting anti-Semitic vibes from it.

But you'll be made to suffer like the rest of us!

You can still escape!

at the speed JR is going you missed about 5 normal minutes of talking

I think she'd pompously argue that as a matter of politeness she's trying to give the name the German pronunciation she thinks it deserves (glossing over the fact that she conveniently forgets to clearly enunciate the first 't').

Thanks for the c&p-ing @Chariothorses

Anyone would think that the SC hadn't said that the comparator for GR discrimination is someone of the same sex without the PC of GR. Pete, in fact.

I know we all want to sleep but we only have an hour of dullness left today.

We can do this!

Although I think the judge has gone for a nap, or maybe a triple espresso.

Or, conversely, an attempt at a subliminal suggestion of Nazism.

A common enough slur aimed at anyone gender critical.

SSH! Stop pointing out the actual law. The TRAs don’t like it.

Given she's been called out on it several times in different cases, that wouldn't wash. If she wants people to respect Upton, she could start by respecting Maya.

Theo was a man who claimed to be a woman
But he knew it couldn't last
His knowledge is nebulous regarding human
Were his exams really passed?

Get back, get back
Get back where you always belonged
Get back, get back
Get back where you always belonged
Get back Theo

Shoulda read Wiki😏
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Forstater is an English-language surname. As of 2014, it was held by 65 people in the United States and 5 people in England.[1]

Panel back

Could be both I guess. Jews are called Nazis often these days.