NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #51

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 50: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5387893-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-50 7 August 2025 to 1 September 2025

From TT

is to seek to blame the C. Not acceptable for R to say it's the C job to warn them of that error. Parties don't have to warn the other.

That takes me to prejudice. Amendment now pleads objectionable manifestion in all aspects, but no details, so difficult for C to know what

I've never been good at putting an argument forward.

I once got shouty and sweary, and the other person said if you have to resort to swearing then you've lost your case.

I mean, fair point, but fuck off.

JR is attempting to amend the Rs pleaded case at the very last possible minute. She wants to rely on 'how the belief was manifested' as being effectively harassment of R2 and thus objectionable manifestation of belief.

Higgs and Forstatter both have - perhaps unfortunate - language that expression of GC beliefs could be harassment. Imagine following a TW around the office shouting 'you're a man, a man, a man' endlessly. As in, even the truth can be harassment.

The legal substance is that all evidence, witnesses, etc are directed to the pleadings. That C proceeded on the basis of the pleaded case. And thus it prejudices their ability to present their case.

I’m sure you’re on it, but new thread, @nauticant ?

And lose, lose for Scotland since we're picking up the tab for NHS Fife.

Another thing that is seriously pissing me off! How much money that could have been spent on actual medical care, medical staff etc etc has been spaffed up the wall in service to men like Theodore Upton?

How much more will it be at the end of the seemingly inevitable appeal?

It should never have happened, Upton and all the men like him should have been told a clear and unshakable

NO!

She wasn't investigated or suspended for 'misgendering' him to colleagues, was she? So it had nothing to do with the actions NHSF took which SP claims is discrimination and the reason for the tribunal.

JR appears to be setting up grounds for appeal, but more importantly for crowdfunder. "We only lost because of a legal technicality. We weren't allowed to speak. give us money"

From TT

this entails. Taking of evidence didn't include objectionable manifestation throughout. Evidence re Xmas Eve was about what was said, cross-exam wasn't pursued with a view to objectionable manifestation. We proceeded on basis that not part of R case. We were allowed to do so.

Continuation thread for people to post in normal sized font:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52

JR has done more than enough speaking.

From TT

Unlike sex, knowledge is not binary. It really is a spectrum. In January there were many other claims on our attention - move to Dundee cos of threats made on me and Judge Kemp, concerns c security here, efforts to persuade R to comply with J Tinnion's orders, tussles c

Do you mean 'Dying Swan Oscar'?

Good point. My late dad anglicised his forename for work purposes, but his actual forename was often mistaken for a woman's.

One time at the Vic, he was booked in for a planned procedure. Much to dad's amusement, someone hadn't read his records correctly and had booked him into the women's ward.

Yes, my 6ft coalminer dad was quickly found a space in a men's ward.

Gosh. Threats were made to NC and Judge Kemp.

Not necessarily, if the NHS investigation related to different allegations eg patient care and they're now saying SP shouldn't be protected due to her racist jokes etc

move to Dundee cos of threats made on me and Judge Kemp

Oh, had not realised

This is why we need a shocked emoji reaction.

The judge was new info wasn't it?

From TT

open justice, further request for material from R and adding that in to the information we had, multiple technical issues with CVP - cross-exam and exam in chief were structure according to the list of issues. Something not in list, even if foreshadowed to some extent

"Unlike sex, knowledge is not binary. It really is a spectrum"

Nicely done, NC!

I think it may have been mentioned before? It does shed interesting light on his tendency to bend over backward to go along with JR's requests though.

From TT

in skeleton argument and evidence, when MC and Louise [?} said was manifestion of C belief. C would be irremediably prejudiced either way - if not called for further exam on this defence she hasn't had fair opportunity to deal with allegations; and also prej if not recalled.

Did JR not insinuate the threats were towards her team? What a liar.

Heads you win, tails we lose.

Wasn't there a threat of citizen's arrest for misgendering DrU?