NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #51

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 50: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5387893-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-50 7 August 2025 to 1 September 2025

This is genuinely terrifying! 😱

And I'm not sure I even really understand it 😬

Mine! All mine!

Don't worry, just stay clear of the cool girls on S&B and carry on wearing whatever you want.

Phew! I shall do this. 🥰

Ambulatory fridge. Love it!

I'm getting the same vibe of "See? You're just hurting yourselves" from all this sudden blethering since the Supreme Court judgement, about butch lesbians and tall women being challenged and thrown out of women's spaces.

They'd have had conniptions at my outfit of croc sliders, tartan pj bottoms and snoopy Hawaiian shirt combo I wore today!

Crocs 4 lyf 😎😎😎

I'm so uncool I am basically cool again.

Until 2020, some Fife secondary new builds were forcing staff to share toilets with pupils - there were no staff toilets. It was supposed to stop bullying and vandalism.

[ETA The cubicle doors were floor to ceiling; there was no exterior door and the single-sex toilets were open to the corridor.]

Yes, staff protested. The unions were useless.

In the end, individual HTs designated some of the toilets as staff only or - in the case of one school that I can think of - told the staff that they could use the disabled toilets (now designated something along the lines of 'all access, so they were still used by pupils, albeit by one person at a time).

Famous Cinematic Toilet Scene: Amish boy hiding, in Witness.

Unable to sleep as my restless legs woke me up. I like S&B and sometimes post on there. The most hideous ads that run on MN (apart from the occasional demon child) are for Max Mara clothing, vile garments in various shades of sludge that never fit properly displayed on models apparently in the throes of an existential crisis and suffering from some indeterminate skeletal condition that renders them incapable of sitting or standing normally.
I have had items from this brand in the past, mostly second hand as they’re so expensive, and they were beautifully designed and made, in lovely fabrics. I think they’re trying for “edgy”, but really they just look shit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgn2gnkk93o

20 million in funding to promote trans - wonder if scotgov could have spent this to better effect elsewhere?

When you think about it, transgenderism is similar to other forms of self harm and drug abuse resorted to by people suffering from poor mental health, unresolved trauma or other circumstances that make them long for some escape. Why some societies are more prone to this than others is not entirely clear (though, coming from an Irish/Scottish family myself, I have some ideas.).

Shortly followed by the infamous Tunnocks riots when people realised there weren't any Tunnocks for tea.

Can I plead exposure to Hans Christian Anderson as a child as a mitigating facto because I've had an earworm of Danny Kay singing the Emperor's New Clothes ever since I started following the Sandie Peggie case and getting radicalised? Or maybe I won't because I like being radicalised. I don't like hierarchies of equality which basically come down to 'you're a woman, get out of my way and don't you dare think your opinion or the law matters.'

Thanks. They've worked that out in non techncial terms but they'll enjoy that. What they haven't worked out is why it doesn't happen in practice. And having those wonderful logical brains they can't see why there's an ambulance with 'proud to be an ally of LGBTQIA' emblazoned on it, but there's not one for any of the other protected groups. After all that's not equal, is it?

Interesting thought as they puzzled it out. Is transgender a mass illusion that a certain type of mum can work out because they have the mum gift of 'I know what you're up to and you can just stop it before I start getting annoyed.' Not that they had that said to them a lot when they were young. Of course not. Perish the thought. It's purely hypothetical that they're a born pair of limit pushers who needed the security of knowing where the limits were.

I noticed that too, and the article itself isn't any good either I thought.

Still a very noticeable bias I think, and using "transgender woman" to obfuscate that Theodore Upton is a man

But they believe he is a woman because Groupthink is very powerful, and Sandie Peggie can tell you all about the consequences of going against it. I am now building my 'favoured few' bingo board of beliefs that have to be held if you want to be part of the Group and understanding why so-called authority doesn't like me any more than I like them because my naughty insistence on doing things legally goes against everything they believe in. The good news is that playing groupthink bingo makes listening to the Today programme so much more fun.

It's also occurred to me that logical argument isn't going to be a strength of anyone who looks down at themselves, sees a penis and thinks 'yup, I'm a proper woman, and what's more I'm better than all the other women who haven't got one.'

Fashion, innit? Scuse me while I go iron my neutral wide-leg trousers…

I'm barred. 😂

@SlackJawedDisbeliefXY Other governments could probably have spent it to better effect but I think the current Scottish Government would just have pissed it away on something else ridiculous instead.

Scottish drug deaths are a national disgrace and little angers me more than the recent big push for Naloxone training and its inclusion in the drug deaths prevention strategy. Administering Naloxone stops somebody dying at the last possible moment. I'm happy to do it should the need arise but please don't tell me it is part of any kind of meaningful prevention strategy. Drugs deaths prevention starts with support for families in the early years and even prior to birth and involves significant, consistent work and investment across a whole range of areas over decades. I'm sure it's not easy but they seem to have no idea what they're doing and I'm not even sure many of them care.

Looks at clock.

Must get up.

Ughhh

I'm not sure I can face more JR.

I read all of Naomi's submission last night (was going to save it until after today but it was too tempting) in Naomi's voice so being faced with JRs voice today has already given me a headache.

Maybe another half an hour snoozing will help.

Not all medics are captured https://open.substack.com/pub/biologyinmedicine/p/letter-to-the-gmc-following-peggie?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

Going back to yesterday's French loos, I follow a couple of map accounts on Facebook and one of them recently posted a map I really should have bookmarked. It showed whether European coutries have a majority of mixed-sex or single-sex public lavatories. (Bear in mind 'mixed' will include the unisex single-user type as well as all-in-together.)

Only 1 has a majority of mixed sex - and it wasn't France it was Sweden.

Is there a copy of the submissions that doesn’t need a google log in to access it? When I tried to access it from the TT sub stack, I was asked to log in to my Google account first

Peggie v NHS Fife & Dr Upton will resume this morning at 10 am. Jane Russell KC for NHS Fife will finish her closing submissions. EJ Kemp and the Panel will ask questions of the legal teams.

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1962784161015456021?t=-yvvT9bFYb0bRjve-5UGWQ&s=19