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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Judge McCloud seeks re-hearing of the Supreme Court FWS appeal

354 replies

ArabellaScott · 18/08/2025 09:23

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/aug/18/transgender-judge-supreme-court-case-biological-sex

'The UK’s first transgender judge has launched a case against the UK in the European court of human rights challenging the process that led to the supreme court’s ruling on biological sex.
The retired judge Victoria McCloud, who is now a litigation strategist at W-Legal, is seeking a rehearing of the case, arguing that the supreme court undermined her article 6 rights to a fair trial when it refused to hear representation from her and did not hear evidence from any other trans individuals or groups.'

The Amnesty representative was, I believe, non-binary?

UK’s first transgender judge seeks rehearing of supreme court case on biological sex

Exclusive: Victoria McCloud says court undermined her rights to a fair trial when it refused to hear her evidence

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/aug/18/transgender-judge-supreme-court-case-biological-sex

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18
MissKomodoDragonsBrunch · 19/08/2025 07:18

logiccalls · 18/08/2025 14:19

Thanks for this thread. My only reservation would be to plead that nobody should use invented Stonewall language at all: Every time 'trans' is used, it implies agreement that 'transformation' into the opposite sex is possible.

By analogy : We are not 'phobic' or 'hate-filled' or 'Mars-Critical' when declining to agree a colleague has 'transitioned' into a Martian, by painting his face green and dressing in silver foil, which he finds exciting. His private fetish is something he should carry out in private, behind closed doors, with consenting adults.

There Is No Such Thing As Trans.

Perhaps:
OPM - Oppositely Presenting Male
OPF - Oppositely Presenting Female

Reinforces the binary distinction between the sexes and using the correct sex descriptor to describe the subject.

Hoardasurass · 19/08/2025 07:49

Binglebong · 18/08/2025 21:23

I saw (with relief!) that he is no longer a judge. If he were, would there be recourse for him blatantly lying about having female anatomy? It would surely bring the profession into disrepute.

Likewise could anyone who case he proceeded over now challenge it due to his bias against women, questions on his sanity and apparent lack of understanding of the law?

He's nolonger a judge because he quit before he was fired for some really unbelievably shocking tweets and behaviour for a sitting judge btw

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/08/2025 07:50

MissKomodoDragonsBrunch · 19/08/2025 07:18

Perhaps:
OPM - Oppositely Presenting Male
OPF - Oppositely Presenting Female

Reinforces the binary distinction between the sexes and using the correct sex descriptor to describe the subject.

I've found the word Pretend to be a very useful one in recent years.

LittleBitofBread · 19/08/2025 08:38

Hoardasurass · 19/08/2025 07:49

He's nolonger a judge because he quit before he was fired for some really unbelievably shocking tweets and behaviour for a sitting judge btw

What were the tweets?

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ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 08:58

“Rosa Parks’ choice of seat was political because of the colour of her skin,” [he] said, adding: “More prosaically, for me I am now political every time I choose where to pee.”

😶

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BellissimoGecko · 19/08/2025 09:04

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 10:06

Why do these people think the Supreme Court is supposed to consult trans people (or any other group) on matters of law?

Supreme Court judges are the country's best legal experts. Why would they seek the opinions of people who know considerably less about the law than they do? It's not like Strictly Come Dancing, where the expert judges give their opinions but the general public also gets a say.

The Supreme Court has literally one job, which is to interpret and uphold the laws passed by Parliament. Even if the law passed by Parliament has a negative impact on trans people, the Supreme Court still has to uphold it. They don't get to disapply it just because some people are upset.

If there is an issue with the law, it is for Parliament to do something about it, using the correct democratic process.

The European Court of Human Rights has no jurisdiction here either. If they want to say that the Equality Act is incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights, they need to show some actual conflict with the obligations the UK actually agreed to in 1953 when the treaty was ratified, which is going to be pretty tricky in this scenario. They were already massively overreaching when they said that the treaty requires member countries to have a gender recognition process. It really doesn't.

This x1000

ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 09:09

From Maya Forstater's complaint about McCloud:

'On 8 March 2024 in a post about “fighting hostile #disinformation online” Dr McCloud said this:
'I've been 'banging on' recently here on Linkedin about how extremism online -
whether any of the common 'isms', like #racism, or more devious things like
#deepfakes, #gendercriticalextremism, #falsenarratives or plain old #conspiracy
theory is a threat to democracy, in this globally vital election year.' (emphasis added)'

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ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 09:09

'Also on or about 8 March 2024 Dr McCloud replied to someone posting about coping with stress and burnout:

Yes indeed. As someone in the process of arranging close personal protection just for my leaving drinks from my job as a judge, thanks to online Gender Critical Extremism calling for action towards me, and one person at large known to want to kill me, maintaining mental health needs work, support and constant nurture, like looking after a plant, feeding and watering it. hashtag#endgenderextremism'

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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 19/08/2025 09:11

ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 09:09

'Also on or about 8 March 2024 Dr McCloud replied to someone posting about coping with stress and burnout:

Yes indeed. As someone in the process of arranging close personal protection just for my leaving drinks from my job as a judge, thanks to online Gender Critical Extremism calling for action towards me, and one person at large known to want to kill me, maintaining mental health needs work, support and constant nurture, like looking after a plant, feeding and watering it. hashtag#endgenderextremism'

What a load of lies.

They seem to forget that just because their own side likes to make death threats against people who disagree with them, that doesn't mean the other side is doing likewise.

fromorbit · 19/08/2025 09:31

Get ready for some comedy.

The ultimate side eye. Even the fox killer who loses cases like they are stray socks basically thinks this case is doomed.

Maugham on McCloud's 'case'.
"It's not our case, this one, and I make no comment on its strength."
https://x.com/thespiralquirk/status/1957561708232475115

I think McCloud and GLP had a falling out which is why McCloud is doing this himself when he was previously linked with them. Imagine creating a trans case so bad even Maugham thinks it is weak and not worth bothering with.

https://x.com/thespiralquirk/status/1957561708232475115

ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 09:36

fromorbit · 19/08/2025 09:31

Get ready for some comedy.

The ultimate side eye. Even the fox killer who loses cases like they are stray socks basically thinks this case is doomed.

Maugham on McCloud's 'case'.
"It's not our case, this one, and I make no comment on its strength."
https://x.com/thespiralquirk/status/1957561708232475115

I think McCloud and GLP had a falling out which is why McCloud is doing this himself when he was previously linked with them. Imagine creating a trans case so bad even Maugham thinks it is weak and not worth bothering with.

😂

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NotbloodyGivingupYet · 19/08/2025 09:53

About the "female anatomy" references -
I'm convinced that the whole "TWAW get over it" movement was so successful, because your average person assumed that trans meant that people had already had the surgery, the hormones, the lot. Someone once said to me that trans athletes "wouldn't go through all that" just to compete as a woman. They wouldn't believe that they mostly go through precisely nothing, although at elite levels they have to keep their testosterone artificially low.
(There was also the confusion over whether a trans woman was a man who identified as a woman, or a woman who identified as a man. There was, of course, a lot of support for the latter being able to claim the rights and protections of being a woman.)
It's only recently that the general public are beginning to understand just who is standing under the trans umbrella. And it looks like they aren't impressed.
And yes, it means that the people who really HAD gone through all that and were just quietly trying to live their lives, are now going to find it all much more uncomfortable. So I'm not surprised that they aren't impressed either.

ItsCoolForCats · 19/08/2025 10:05

Interesting. I wondered why VM was crowdfunding, as I assumed the case was being funded by the money raised by the GLP. I guess not!

TWETMIRF · 19/08/2025 10:45

ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 09:09

'Also on or about 8 March 2024 Dr McCloud replied to someone posting about coping with stress and burnout:

Yes indeed. As someone in the process of arranging close personal protection just for my leaving drinks from my job as a judge, thanks to online Gender Critical Extremism calling for action towards me, and one person at large known to want to kill me, maintaining mental health needs work, support and constant nurture, like looking after a plant, feeding and watering it. hashtag#endgenderextremism'

Interesting hashtag, it's not our side that are the gender extremists

BellissimoGecko · 19/08/2025 10:59

ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 09:09

'Also on or about 8 March 2024 Dr McCloud replied to someone posting about coping with stress and burnout:

Yes indeed. As someone in the process of arranging close personal protection just for my leaving drinks from my job as a judge, thanks to online Gender Critical Extremism calling for action towards me, and one person at large known to want to kill me, maintaining mental health needs work, support and constant nurture, like looking after a plant, feeding and watering it. hashtag#endgenderextremism'

What an absolute load of lies. If you can name any sex realist who has made death threats to a trans person, I’d be amazed. It’s ALWAYS the other way around.

And gender extremism?? That’s Mcloud, not us. Crazy. Trying to invert reality

TheUnusuallyQuerulentMxLauraBrown · 19/08/2025 11:37

fromorbit · 19/08/2025 09:31

Get ready for some comedy.

The ultimate side eye. Even the fox killer who loses cases like they are stray socks basically thinks this case is doomed.

Maugham on McCloud's 'case'.
"It's not our case, this one, and I make no comment on its strength."
https://x.com/thespiralquirk/status/1957561708232475115

I think McCloud and GLP had a falling out which is why McCloud is doing this himself when he was previously linked with them. Imagine creating a trans case so bad even Maugham thinks it is weak and not worth bothering with.

Doubledip fundraising? If I were someone who had contributed to the GLP on the basis they were working with an actual retired legal professional I would want a refund!

As I am tervern rather than trans I am endlessly amused at the thought of the trans ex judge arguing with the ex tax barrister

SecretNameforMN · 19/08/2025 11:38

ArabellaScott · 18/08/2025 11:31

Ah, I think I've found the reason this is back in the news.

https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/britains-first-trans-judge-crowdfunds-to-challenge-uk-in-strasbourg

Crowdfund launched. (Whatever happened to the joint effort with the GLP?)

Anyway, McCloud has managed £150 so far.

Where did you get that figure? It states that he has raised £10,521

ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 11:40

SecretNameforMN · 19/08/2025 11:38

Where did you get that figure? It states that he has raised £10,521

That was the figure when I accessed the site yesterday morning. Presumably people have donated since then.

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ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 11:40

TWETMIRF · 19/08/2025 10:45

Interesting hashtag, it's not our side that are the gender extremists

DARVO.

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SecretNameforMN · 19/08/2025 11:46

ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 11:40

That was the figure when I accessed the site yesterday morning. Presumably people have donated since then.

Gosh, that is a surprise. He doesn't have a legal leg to stand on, and he should know that, being an experienced, learned High Court judge.

And if his career was so successful, how come he doesn't have even £150,000 in the bank to pay his own costs?

5andals · 19/08/2025 11:46

I seem to remember that a while back when there was a review around to the GRA that no women's groups were consulted in on the impact it would have. I bet he was happy with the ' no consultation' approach then

Merrymouse · 19/08/2025 11:52

BellissimoGecko · 19/08/2025 10:59

What an absolute load of lies. If you can name any sex realist who has made death threats to a trans person, I’d be amazed. It’s ALWAYS the other way around.

And gender extremism?? That’s Mcloud, not us. Crazy. Trying to invert reality

I actually can believe that somebody who had a career as a judge has a stalker, and there are plenty of idiots on twitter who will attach themselves to any cause.

The difference is that if these people do exist, they are making their threats privately, not welcomed at organised events holding banners and making speeches.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/08/2025 12:14

ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 11:40

That was the figure when I accessed the site yesterday morning. Presumably people have donated since then.

They’re all very optimistic about it on Reddit.

ArabellaScott · 19/08/2025 12:25

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/08/2025 12:14

They’re all very optimistic about it on Reddit.

Oh, dear. Well, whatever floats their boats.

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