Trans man denied Gender Recognition Certificate over attempt to conceive

[IwantToRetire]

A trans man has been denied legal recognition of his gender by the Gender Recognition Panel (GRP) after it ruled that his attempt to conceive a child meant he was not “living as a man”. The decision has sparked outrage among human rights advocates and legal experts, who argue it breaches both domestic and international human rights law.

Article continues at https://www.scenemag.co.uk/trans-man-denied-gender-recognition-certificate-over-attempt-to-conceive/

Good! Quite right.

Great. We really need to stop pandering to this nonsense.

She can't have it both ways, especially when attempting to do something which is unique to women!

Seems eminently sensible.
How can any woman claim she is "living as a man" while simultaneously trying to do the most female thing possible?

Correct decision

If you read the full article it is a really good example of how the TRAs have taken a law which was / is about providing a medical route to resolve gender dysphoria is now being put forward as life style choice movement.

Clearly if you had gender dysphoria then you wouldn't want to use your body in a way that confirms it sex.

Note how they make it about sterilisation, ie ramping up the cruel horrid treatement of trans people.

Whereas it is just a straightforward rejection based on the law itself which talks about "living as".

We really need to face up to just how sucessful the false representation by Stonewall and others has led many to think the law is something it isn't.

Born men cannot have children so they are not living as a man if they are trying for a baby

Good decision. Doesn't stop her having a baby if she wants one, while presenting as a man.

I have zero problem with this. You can't give a legally binding declaration that you will "live as a man" for the rest of your life while planning to do the most female thing it's possible to do, which no male can ever do.

Excellent decision.

Unfortunately taking a logical position will only increase the arguement that trans are the most victimised people, and no doubt those in the Labour Party working toward making the GRA a much more choice based issue, will use this as ammunition to push for that.

Claiming that is only GC believers, who are known to be cruel and anti trans, would treat someone so harshly.

O wonder how many Trans women are happily conceiving children while officially being seen as women without any of this scrutiny?

It’s high time that we started saying no, that’s unreasonable, you can’t have it.

I do not have gender dysphoria and I wanted kids, but when I fell pregnant I did try to describe to people that I felt pregnancy was not “natural” to me. I remember saying to friends that I found the idea of an entire human being living inside me very disconcerting, and wouldn’t it be so much easier if we laid eggs like birds and reptiles and fish? I immediately realised it was the “wrong” way to feel and most women love the idea of being pregnant.

Anyway my point is that I’d expect trans men to be even more weirded out by the idea of pregnancy and breastfeeding- to the extent that they couldn’t stomach the idea of conceiving a child. I do not know a single man who would like to be pregnant, go through childbirth, and feed their child. If you are “living as a man” you should prefer to avoid these essentially womanly activities.

Good.

I think the Labour Party are free to go down that road if they wish. Let's see how many votes it gets them.

This small group is trying to change society to its own ends - there is no buy in from the public but they are trying to push it through behind the scenes, through court cases like this.

They believe that gender identity is a feeling which has nothing to do with biology or how you present in your day to day life.

So for them, markers like pregnancy, or keeping you full beard, are irrelevant. Sure, some people like the stereotypical behaviour and dress sense of their preferred gender, but it is unnecessary - the internal feeling is what matters, and it's up to you what you do next.

Of course, a lot of our institutions have been lapping this stuff up. Luckily the courts are applying the law, not interpreting it for the benefit of this little group.

But it is getting ridiculous.

This is such a relief.

Will they withdraw the GRC from those trans identifying females who have had a baby since swearing an oath to live as a man?

I think I’m going to apply for French citizenship. I don’t live there, I’ve never worked there, I’m not married to a French citizen but I quite like the idea of having citizenship because I dress in a chic French style, eat croissants and smoke outside cafés. If the bigots don’t grant me citizenship I’ll take them to court.

Freddie McConnell still has her GRC I think after having two(?) babies. She was the one who went to court to be named father on the birth certificate and lost

This was my feeling too - I hated not being in control of my body - this process had been set in train that made me feel all sorts of weird, and there was nothing I could do about it. I found my first pregnancy really mentally difficult because of that lack of control. Second pregnancy was fine in that respect as I’d already gone through it before, and I knew there’d be some good moments too like feeling the baby move (although pregnancy is still mostly fucking awful). Much like periods and all the other female biological stuff - it’s shit but you just get on with it / get used to it. You’d never choose it.

The issue doesn't arise unless they are applying for a GRC.

I don't understand the argument equating this to sterilising people. It seems to me pretty clear that if, as a transman, you are actively trying to do something that only women can do, you cannot claim to be male. No-one is saying you're sterile, i.e. that you can't have children, it's just that you can't have a GRC.

What does "living as a women" mean? Very open to being educated.

To be fair, we’ve been asking that question for years and no one has been able to give an answer…