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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Policy Audit - working party

1000 replies

KnottyAuty · 10/03/2025 13:02

Following on from Thread #23 of the Peggie v NHS Employment Tribunal. Anyone who wants to help with survey/audit of paperwork against the Equality Act protected characteristics please join here 😊

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thenoisiesttermagant · 29/03/2025 14:43

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 29/03/2025 14:40

NHS Lothian had an FOI which asked about sexual assault - it came back something along the lines of there wasn’t a category in DATIX for sexual assault, so they couldn’t say if any had happened, so sorry, nothing to see here.

😐

Well that's convenient isn't it. Depressing.

thenoisiesttermagant · 29/03/2025 14:44

Didn't Dr Upton use DATIX? So there's a field for hurt feelings but not actual sexual assault?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 29/03/2025 15:03

thenoisiesttermagant · 29/03/2025 14:44

Didn't Dr Upton use DATIX? So there's a field for hurt feelings but not actual sexual assault?

Oh yes indeed.

Because as we all know, men’s hurty feels is genocide, but women being actually physically attacked is just another Wednesday.

KnottyAuty · 29/03/2025 15:06

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 29/03/2025 13:48

Derailing for a min to link this from the Sussex uni fine thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5302074-university-of-sussex-fined-ps585000-by-office-for-students?reply=143174676&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

Of interest here is the fact that the OfS found a large number of unis had policies that were basically cut and pasted from a single source, which interestingly wasn’t Stonewall. Just like we’re seeing in a lot of these NHS trusts.

Very interesting!

it made me go off to look at the NHS Constitution
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-nhs-constitution-for-england/the-nhs-constitution-for-england#patients-and-the-public-your-rights-and-the-nhs-pledges-to-you

Are my eyes deceiving me? Has sex been written out of the list of protected characteristics?

The NHS Constitution for England

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-nhs-constitution-for-england/the-nhs-constitution-for-england#patients-and-the-public-your-rights-and-the-nhs-pledges-to-you

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FarriersGirl · 29/03/2025 15:08

@thenoisiesttermagant I agree and I also think the fact that an organisation has left does not end the influence. Most policies run for 3-5 years before review and even then updating, IME would be quite cursory.

Chrysanthemum5 · 29/03/2025 15:13

Yes @KnottyAuty they've replaced it with gender. But they don't say they are protected characteristics even though they obviously are supposed to be

FarriersGirl · 29/03/2025 15:22

The NHS Constitution is being updated and it was out for consultation last year. As far as I can see the change of government means it has stalled. One section below is a proposed change in regards to transgender patients.

if you are admitted to hospital, you will not have to share sleeping accommodation with patients of the opposite biological sex, except where appropriate. The Equality Act 2010 allows for the provision of single-sex or separate-sex services. It also allows for transgender persons with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment to be provided a different service - for example, a single room in a hospital - if it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/nhs-constitution-10-year-review/nhs-constitution-10-year-review#how-to-respond

NHS Constitution: 10 year review

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/nhs-constitution-10-year-review/nhs-constitution-10-year-review#how-to-respond

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 29/03/2025 15:25

FarriersGirl · 29/03/2025 15:22

The NHS Constitution is being updated and it was out for consultation last year. As far as I can see the change of government means it has stalled. One section below is a proposed change in regards to transgender patients.

if you are admitted to hospital, you will not have to share sleeping accommodation with patients of the opposite biological sex, except where appropriate. The Equality Act 2010 allows for the provision of single-sex or separate-sex services. It also allows for transgender persons with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment to be provided a different service - for example, a single room in a hospital - if it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/nhs-constitution-10-year-review/nhs-constitution-10-year-review#how-to-respond

What I would really like is for all of these things that say “if that is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim” to add afterwards “for example, maintaining actual single sex spaces.”

edited to add

Because at the moment, everyone seems to be under the mistaken impression that women having actual single sex spaces is not a legitimate aim.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/03/2025 15:38

thenoisiesttermagant · 29/03/2025 14:39

I really like the way they've kept the names up of those that used to pay Stonewall and used strikethrough to show who's stopped. It's a nice visual and important too for accountability.

I still can't get over Ofsted. I mean it's great they left - in terms of implementing safeguarding law especially - but my trust in their ability to do what's best for children has been lost somewhat by the fact they ever thought this was a good idea. Their focus cannot have been on what was best for children rather than adults.

Some additional info re Ofsted. They were actually downgrading primary schools for a lack of teaching about gender identity. Stonewall wrote to Ofsted whining that they weren't speaking enough to little children about GI. Fortunately the letters were leaked to the Telegraph. After a furore Ofsted dumped Stonewall. There was no apology for pushing GI in schools - they've done a quiet reverse ferret in the hope that nobody will notice.
But they're fully culpable for the direction schools have taken with all this - just as NHS England, the CQC etc are for the NHS's awful safeguarding failures re this. Archive link to the Telegraph article:

archive.ph/L987K

KnottyAuty · 29/03/2025 21:38

These london trusts are proving really tricky compared to the scottish ones aren't they?

I've ended up trawling news items to get the names of staff networks and then googling those got to board minutes which I word searched and found reference to a new transgender inclusion policy... 😅I've sent in a FOI as that policy was created in 2025 and Ermine's searches came up as "no policy" but gender self ID.

Also being thwarted by the mergers which seem to have been happening - that website with the list of NHS Providers seems to be about 3-4 years out of date which makes things unecessarily difficult?!

The combination of mergers combined with lack of transparency means I've taken 3-4 hours on one trust?! I'm fairly certain it is self ID, but not totally certain. How on earth is any average person meant to find out what is going on?!

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SqueakyDinosaur · 29/03/2025 23:43

If someone could take on Homerton and Hounslow & Richmond, that would be great - Great Ormond St and Imperial are beasts, I suspect simply because kids (GOSH) and number of sites (Imperial)....

KnottyAuty · 30/03/2025 08:19

If I'm managing to track offers of help correctly would this be OK?

@ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly - Homerton Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust

@withthegreatestrespect - Hounslow and Richmond Community Healthcare NHS Trust

one each?

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KnottyAuty · 30/03/2025 08:31

Has anyone been doing either of these?

West London NHS Trust
Whittington Health NHS Trust

We are doing really well - only 10 out of 31 to finish off - we are whipping through these much much faster than the Scottish ones even though they seem much more difficult..

Great work vipers xx

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ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly · 30/03/2025 09:32

KnottyAuty · 30/03/2025 08:19

If I'm managing to track offers of help correctly would this be OK?

@ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly - Homerton Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust

@withthegreatestrespect - Hounslow and Richmond Community Healthcare NHS Trust

one each?

Edited

I haven’t time just now @KnottyAuty think maybe it was someone else?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/03/2025 09:35

ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly · 30/03/2025 09:32

I haven’t time just now @KnottyAuty think maybe it was someone else?

I think @FarriersGirl was one of the offers maybe?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/03/2025 09:36

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/03/2025 09:35

I think @FarriersGirl was one of the offers maybe?

And maybe @YellowRoom?

teawamutu · 30/03/2025 10:20

@KnottyAuty just confirming I'm still on South Maudsley and UCL - was out yesterday so will be back on it this afternoon.

YellowRoom · 30/03/2025 10:40

Morning - I'll do University College London Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust today and can also pick up Homerton Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust. Possibly more depending on how long they take

withthegreatestrespect · 30/03/2025 10:53

ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly · 30/03/2025 09:32

I haven’t time just now @KnottyAuty think maybe it was someone else?

I'll take on both. Should have time this afternoon

umbel · 30/03/2025 11:03

Anyone else want help with their allocation? I've suspended my broader search for now, but have time today and Monday for some London ferreting.

SeaStoat · 30/03/2025 11:11

teawamutu · 28/03/2025 15:16

The FOI site is gold. Ermine Amies, if you walk among us - thank you for your service 🙌

Edited

<waves>

withthegreatestrespect · 30/03/2025 11:20

YellowRoom · 30/03/2025 10:40

Morning - I'll do University College London Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust today and can also pick up Homerton Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust. Possibly more depending on how long they take

Sorry, didn't see your post😳I'll leave Homerton to you and I'll do Hounslow and Richmond

FarriersGirl · 30/03/2025 13:07

@KnottyAuty Are they all allocated or do you need me to do another one?

withthegreatestrespect · 30/03/2025 13:19

Following several years of close partnership working and shared leadership, in November 2024 Hounslow and Richmond Community Healthcare (HRCH) and Kingston Hospital NHS Foundation Trust formally joined together and are now called Kingston and Richmond NHS Foundation Trust.

So I think @ThatPithySheep has covered Hounslow and Richmond as part of Kingston and Richmond. Do you have a different one (or two) that you would like me to do @KnottyAuty ?

KnottyAuty · 30/03/2025 15:56

SeaStoat · 30/03/2025 11:11

<waves>

Ooh hello! @SeaStoat
thank you sooooooo sooooo much for all your searching xxxx

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