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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Policy Audit - working party

1000 replies

KnottyAuty · 10/03/2025 13:02

Following on from Thread #23 of the Peggie v NHS Employment Tribunal. Anyone who wants to help with survey/audit of paperwork against the Equality Act protected characteristics please join here 😊

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thenoisiesttermagant · 25/04/2025 14:34

Ok - found a link to stonewall via a FOI. Confirmed a member in 2023.

@KnottyAuty - I think I submitted the form by accident, then submitted again. Can you let me know if it looks ok and if the two documents are uploaded - one is a trans and non-binary inclusion policy and one a (crap) EQIA for this.

No patient policies found yet though. I'm going to do a bit more digging, but suspect I won't find anything more.

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YellowRoom · 25/04/2025 16:05

Walsall Healthcare - all rather odd. I couldn't find a single-sex accommodation policy - just statements of conformity.

I couldn't find a trans policy for staff or patients - they said on Ermine FOI 22/07/24 that they don't have a trans policy for staff but they're working on it. However, in 2020 'The newly created EDI policy aims to ensure that unlawful discrimination on the basis of gender and gender reassignment is eliminated by setting out the organisations’ commitment to protecting staff trans staff and female and male staff...' And in Walsall EDI annual report 2021 2022 - The LGBTQ+ Allies Network have offered support and guidance with policy development (LGBTQ+ Trans Policy and Guidance). And in 2022/23 Public Sector Equality Duty Report - says LGBTQ+ Network involved in the development of trans workplace guidance.

There is a current job ad showing Stonewall Diversity Champion badge. And there's oodles of rainbow badge stuff - selected to participate in phase 2 in 2021/2.

I've submitted and included this info.

KnottyAuty · 25/04/2025 16:37

YellowRoom · 25/04/2025 16:05

Walsall Healthcare - all rather odd. I couldn't find a single-sex accommodation policy - just statements of conformity.

I couldn't find a trans policy for staff or patients - they said on Ermine FOI 22/07/24 that they don't have a trans policy for staff but they're working on it. However, in 2020 'The newly created EDI policy aims to ensure that unlawful discrimination on the basis of gender and gender reassignment is eliminated by setting out the organisations’ commitment to protecting staff trans staff and female and male staff...' And in Walsall EDI annual report 2021 2022 - The LGBTQ+ Allies Network have offered support and guidance with policy development (LGBTQ+ Trans Policy and Guidance). And in 2022/23 Public Sector Equality Duty Report - says LGBTQ+ Network involved in the development of trans workplace guidance.

There is a current job ad showing Stonewall Diversity Champion badge. And there's oodles of rainbow badge stuff - selected to participate in phase 2 in 2021/2.

I've submitted and included this info.

Well that ticks all the boxes - how would anyone know what to expect?!

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KnottyAuty · 25/04/2025 17:29

And another article today based on the London audit:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/25/teenage-boys-on-girls-hospital-wards-nhs-gender-rules/

Plus share link for the comments:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/071806ba6d79292a

And archive:
https://archive.ph/Iyblu

Well done vipers - that is 3 articles from London alone! There's still egregious stuff not yet covered...maybe enough for another 2?
@TwoLoonsAndASprout

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ArabellaScott · 25/04/2025 17:34

Amazing, Knotty et.al!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/04/2025 17:34

KnottyAuty · 25/04/2025 17:29

And another article today based on the London audit:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/25/teenage-boys-on-girls-hospital-wards-nhs-gender-rules/

Plus share link for the comments:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/071806ba6d79292a

And archive:
https://archive.ph/Iyblu

Well done vipers - that is 3 articles from London alone! There's still egregious stuff not yet covered...maybe enough for another 2?
@TwoLoonsAndASprout

And a gifty link:

www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/f757a1c625041762

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/04/2025 17:34

Oh oops! Missed you had already done a gift 🤣

Hoydenish · 25/04/2025 17:35

Get in! Well done all.

KnottyAuty · 25/04/2025 17:40

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/04/2025 17:34

Oh oops! Missed you had already done a gift 🤣

Gifts for all our friends! 😘

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KnottyAuty · 25/04/2025 17:46

It is certainly a bit of a boost at the end of Thread #1.
And will help steel me for my weekend of grimness reading it all.
I was planning to pace myself but then there is the pressure of the local elections...

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Peregrina · 25/04/2025 17:51

I note that the Telegraph article says that NHS Trusts are urgently reviewing the guidance.

Have any of you working on this noticed any urgency - any pages taken down and replaced with a statement saying that this page is under view, or this page has been deleted?

Don't all shout at once.

Cantunseeit · 25/04/2025 18:01

👋👋👋 brilliant work @KnottyAutyin keeping the coverage coming🍷for you. I’ve heard a couple of references to the headline findings in some radio interviews, so it’s obviously landing in the consciousness more broadly

KnottyAuty · 25/04/2025 18:06

Cantunseeit · 25/04/2025 18:01

👋👋👋 brilliant work @KnottyAutyin keeping the coverage coming🍷for you. I’ve heard a couple of references to the headline findings in some radio interviews, so it’s obviously landing in the consciousness more broadly

Please do post any links here so we can track impact - thanks so much!

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teawamutu · 25/04/2025 18:10

"The Telegraph has used the painstaking research done by a group of unpaid women on Mumsnet uncovered..."

However it gets out there, it's a win though.

Awesome work on pulling it together and presenting, @KnottyAuty clearly very tempting to them.

What's next...? 😄

Cantunseeit · 25/04/2025 18:54

Yes Antisocial was one reference- the other I can’t remember. Whoever it was said “apparently all London hospitals accommodate trans women on female wards” or something along those lines- v brief but I clocked it and wondered if it came from the Telegraph article. So much coverage of the judgement it’s difficult to keep up.

SqueakyDinosaur · 25/04/2025 21:10

I had to duck out of this for family problems, so sorry, but I am absolutely in AWE of what you wims have achieved. @KnottyAuty you should get an OBE for this!

thenoisiesttermagant · 25/04/2025 23:52

I think the thing that is so worrying is that NHS Trusts are so intrinsically misogynistic and totalitarian that they felt absolutely confident in writing down their illegal and inhumane policies that could clearly harm patients. Yes, for some of them it was stupidly following Stonewall illegal advice.

The slightly smarter trusts will have just said policies were 'in development' for years (the one I just did had a bit of that) and then they're completely free to put men in with vulnerable women whenever the men wanted, because of the ideology of a few EDI staff, no matter the consequences, and cowing all the other staff into silence and doubt and walking on eggshells. Because they KNOW those patients, those vulnerable women and children, have no means of effectively speaking up for their rights and for their safety. Often they're already ill and struggling with life.

Think of the courage it took for Sandie Peggie to speak up. And the fact Fife seemingly didn't have any policies or any EQIA either, there was just a culture of fear. It's deliberate.

Which is why we have to carry on. But I just don't know if the trust in the NHS can ever be restored for me. Because if this is what they're willing to commit to in documents, what are they doing but not telling? Some hospitals will likely be purging the documents now. But some hospitals have avoided writing anything down - plausible deniability - I can see from FOIs for the trust I've just done that they told people asking FOI questions that some policies were 'in development' for almost 3 years! Although in this case the staff policy is pretty clear that the Trust thinks men become women on their say so and must be pandered to at every possible opportunity without any serious thought of the consequences for anyone else.

Thank you to our fearless leader @KnottyAuty and others who are doing more of the heavy lifting - happy to help more with whatever needs doing next!

FarriersGirl · 26/04/2025 07:39

Peregrina · 25/04/2025 17:51

I note that the Telegraph article says that NHS Trusts are urgently reviewing the guidance.

Have any of you working on this noticed any urgency - any pages taken down and replaced with a statement saying that this page is under view, or this page has been deleted?

Don't all shout at once.

I have recently completed one trust where the policies were easy to find and rainbows plastered over everything on the website. Another in the same county has not got anything relevant on its website and I don't get the impression policies etc have been removed recently.

teawamutu · 26/04/2025 08:42

FarriersGirl · 26/04/2025 07:39

I have recently completed one trust where the policies were easy to find and rainbows plastered over everything on the website. Another in the same county has not got anything relevant on its website and I don't get the impression policies etc have been removed recently.

Couple days ago - one with a big banner saying website being rebuilt. Couldn't find the policies through the nav and the search bar was gone.

Policies still there when you googled, though. Possibly coincidence.

Blackmetallic · 26/04/2025 10:28

Just to confirm I've submitted Chesterfield Royal NHS Trust, also Derbyshire Healthcare submitted a few days ago, still working on Derbyshire Community Health Services (and trying not to get the two Derbyshires muddled up) there are definite Stonewall links for Derbyshire CHS which I'm trying to dig a bit more for

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 26/04/2025 10:30

Blackmetallic · 26/04/2025 10:28

Just to confirm I've submitted Chesterfield Royal NHS Trust, also Derbyshire Healthcare submitted a few days ago, still working on Derbyshire Community Health Services (and trying not to get the two Derbyshires muddled up) there are definite Stonewall links for Derbyshire CHS which I'm trying to dig a bit more for

Thank you!

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FarriersGirl · 26/04/2025 14:09

finishing the thread😝

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