NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #18

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

SO=sexual orientation?

ED Treat them as the sex they believe they are

NC we agree re trust position, it;s GI

ED That's the advice I got from E&D

NC SO when SP stood her ground all hell broke loose on Sandie

ED I wldnt say so. Was the manner

NC The consequences were unfair

JR was also the prison

Well that's all the more evidence against me I'd say 😂

To all the lurkers

👋 ❤

Does anyone else get the feeling that ED is tieing herself in knots here

ED I beleive shld treat ppl as they want regardless of their sex and SO

Gold medal for the stupidest statement ever.

Yes , he was a transient junior doctor, they come and go. SP had been there for years. She had a lot more to lose.

NHS Fife hoped that DU would move on and SP would have learned her lesson (and so would all the other women in the trust ). They would all STFU , just like it was in the good old days of the NHS, when doctors ( mostly men ) were always right and nurses ( all women ) did what they were told and never challenged them.

Which all shows that it was never about patient safety . And it was never about SP being a risk in some undefined way to transgender patients.

If SP was a risk to patients, that would not disappear when DU moved to anaesthetics.

They were all just playing for time, hence the long delays in taking appropriate action to investigate the complaints.

ED E&D policy said cldnt exclude Beth

Unable to think for myself

That's the second time ED has referred to sexual orientation. She really doesn't understand this stuff does she.

Why the fuck is JR butting in there? Let the witness speak.

That's from me, not TT

The prison! The prison! Don't forget the rapist!

again the bullshit conflation of sexual orientation and gender identity...
GAAAAAAAH

I think we know when/why she butts in by now..

Because ED is making an utter fool of herself?

Ed comes across as not that bright, and as having being told in no uncertain terms that no-one was allowed to challenge Upton's assertion that he's female. That's all she knows. You can't do anything that might suggest that Upton is a man. She's trying to answer NC's questions without breaking that rule and the only way is to give answers she knows aren't true.

JR leaping in to answer for the witness again, I gather?

JR comment. Unfair and misleading Q

NC Sp stood her ground and had v bad consequences

ED SP had a diff situation in CR and that's what led to the SX

NC It's obvious why no one else complained. Theyre frightened

ED No, but y'd need to ask frightened

Heavy duty DEI indoctrination at work.

NC U are too as GI got hold of trust

ED No. I treat ppl as they want to be

NC [reads re any further incidents and DU's statement re lack of interactions and not being aware]

ED Yes, as erious allegation and wld have IX it brought to my attention. Wld be neglectful to not

While I agree completely with this, having watched several days when we were able to watch I can read NC and JR’s comments in my head as if they were saying them out loud, which is something.

Place mark

Hooray, I'm back from my meeting and all caught up - just as we get to the crux of the issue, by the looks of things!

follow up

NC ANyone shld report it?

ED Yes, but remeber not that many staff in each room

NC But if staff had seen, they'd have a reg duty as so serious

It' s serious yes

NC So Beth shld have escalated at the time

ED But no detriment to pat as Beth remained

FFS. Either it's so serious it should be reported immediately, or it isn't.

I'm finding it harder to follow today as I don't talk abbreviation. Was there talk of a crowdfunder to get the full transcript?