NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #18

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

NC U cld see how much trouble ppl got into by saying Beth is a man

ED Rephrase plse

NC [rephrases re being willing to say Beth a man]

ED Beth Ided as a female

NC Whatever's in his head, or how he dresses, is still a man

ED It's how you say yr views

Yes, bullying and harassment.

Arrived

Who says there is a risk here?

Is that EDs assessment or it's Upton telling ED that's the risk?

Who is in charge here?

Who is leading this?

ED has said in various ways 'i assumed', 'that wasn't my responsibility' and 'because Upton told me'. She seems unfamiliar with proper protocol on investigations and suspensions. And was totally unaware safeguarding issues.

But is shit hot on what Equality policy.

How much does ED get paid to be this useless?

You de-transitioned to become a Marathon child.

ED It's how you say yr views

Translation

Please don't make me admit he's a man please

@Szygy I'm clearly a ludite - can you explain the Yeats paraphrasing mentioned in the last thread please?!
I'd like to look it up

Oh dear.

Shes about to make herself look very stupid.

NC You say [reads re not realising DU used F CR and hadn't thought of CR issues as dresses and behaves like a F]

ED Correct

NC U know it's trouble to say women cant be men and M cant be W, so know acknowleding this causes trouble. SO yr frightened and saying what yr saying now

It’s actually really telling how little NHS Fife cared about Eq&Div - they wouldn’t have let loose a 25yo with no obvious HR or legal experience to make decisions like this if they were concerned about the impact of the whole range of possible PC contraventions on staff and patients.

I so want to be watching this live.

thank you Nauticant!

NC U know it's trouble to say women cant be men and M cant be W, so know acknowleding this causes trouble. SO yr frightened and saying what yr saying now

Say it loud, NC! ❤

ED I treat ppl as I find them, respect their beliefs and treat everyone as an individual

NC But, that's different. Shldnt discriminate on ppl for PCs.
Everyone agrees on this. But diff to say a man is a woman if he says so and uses undressing situation/space

I so wish I could see this.

At risk of repeating myself, but Upton has already admitted that he brought up Adam Graham/Isla Bryson, not SP. It is one of his many assumed facts (a bit like his bio sex).

So if ED is saying it, she got that from Upton, and it's not true.

Does anyone else wonder if they strung out the suspension with the aim of keeping it going until Upton moved on, telling themselves it was only a few months, and then they could bring SP back and say it's all fine now nothing to see here.

The Second Coming | The Poetry Foundation

I think it was, "the centre cannot hold" which is a quote from The Second Coming.

I would also like to thank whichever poster it was who quoted Wallace and Gromit.😁

Edited: I see Marie got there first!

Unless they are Sandie and her beliefs.

didnt hear response]
NC [new page] You said u hadnt spoken to IB before Beth arrived. 1st talk in August

ED Yes

NC IB spoke to ED in July 23 after R2 joined

ED I dint discuss w IB until end of Aug, so incorrect

NC How is this in claim docs then?

ED Never seen docs before

Another lurker who has been seriously peaked by this case! Can’t quite believe how far from reality organisations have fallen. Thank you all for fighting for women and reality!

Yes, I noticed that - she's using that to back up their claims against SP, but they only ever got that bit of bullshit from the Dr himself...

I

Its not all about YOU.

Other people have valid reasons for thinking differently due to life experience.

(Her age isn't a great feature here again because she's showing a lack of empathy and experience here).

Throwing a post in for if there is any analysis of support numbers.

I get rotas can be complicated but can anyone who has dealt with NHS rotas confirm if this timescale is complete fiction or accurate?

Is IB going to have to give evidence as well? I actually feel quite sorry for her. She’s probably been thrown under the bus as well.