NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #17

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16

NC [find new page] JH's email to HR ppl where she describes interview w you [reads re SX being the last resort and said never a SX before in AE] Vanishingly rare?

ED Yes

NC There must have been upsets before. Allegations of B&H

ED It's not freq

NC No allegs of bullying ever?

Hope NC circles back to this

NC What are unsafe from?

Especially as ED has not outlined any risk to patient safety

ED I dont think any allegations of bullying before. Only remember junior nurse under SP before.

NC [find new page] Email we've already looked at, touching on same convo she had w you. Says Sx is last resort, separating.. Esther thought cldnt keep them separate...

I've known a lot of people who dismiss the pipes as 'just noise' but there's a beauty and a mournfulness to it. There's a bit in Sunset Song (novel by Lewis Grassic Gibbon which most Scots read for their Higher English exams) which talks about Scottish music going deep into the psyche of the Scots. I can't remember the exact quote though.

She also expressed radical homophobic and anti-sex education views. So it is a victory for free speech rather than particularly for anti transgender views.

NC This isnt pat safety is it?

ED I think it's both. Keeping them separate but if SP walks out is safety

NC If the alleg is true. GM thinks is a pat safety issue. It must be unwilling to work tog?

ED It's both. Dont expect confrontation betwenn staff?

NC But CR isnt

ED No

This is incredible to me, a situation which never happens happened because a woman had to the temerity to look a man (in a dress) in the eyes & say 'no'.

I mean that's just wild, isn't it?

Sorry if this has been posted, this made me well up.

x.com/forwomenscot/status/1890345730440659181?s=46&t=nPgROCTiDDSWjs4hvIX0SA

Sniff, marvellous 😍

NC But it's about DU being a man in the CR. It's ve specific to the presence in CR

ED She felt she shld be there

NC Forget that aspect. CR cant justify SX can it

ED It's both. You cant separate the 2 issues

NC It's clear from emails [reads re allegations and datix and leavng

The piobaireachd or ceol mór [sorry can only do the Irish language accents!] is spinetingling. Equivalent of our sean-nós singing, I think. Deep deep music from our souls..

Not sure how that's a victory - sex education is important for girls AND boys as it deals with reality & consent.

As for homophobia...that can just get to fuck.

NC [reads re leaving but not yet having a response from SP] Melanie Gorgenson to MSF says in email re Jackie's advice and potential of others being treated in this manner

ED The IX hadnt taken place

NC But if nothing in alleg u dont launch a full FC?

ED That was to determine what I had to IX as hadnt gone down formal IX process at that point

Was SP suspended BEFORE the formal IX route started? That's literally insane if so.

I think it was the contrast between SP walking in head held high full of the dignity DU and Fife NHS have tried so hard to strip her of and DU's arrival earlier in the week be-hatted and be-scarfed and surrounded by a team of 'yay sayers'.

But the pipes did help.

but the suspension happened before the pat safety concerns were raised. Surely ED knows she is trapping herself here

Whats happening to ED should be a lesson to all who go along with this ideology rather than asking questions.

Yes, you might be hung out to dry and your career ended for challenging and asking difficult questions.

However if you blindly go along with it, you risk ending up on that stand in EDs position.

The lesson here is that you are ultimately disposable.

And for this reason, women really need to start looking at who is pushing this and how in every scenario its women who lose out.

The solution isn't to keep supporting it. Its to go right to the top and ask big questions about how and why we have institionalised misogyny and why managers are making these decisions.

NC MG is trying to understand what pat safety issue is. The possibility the C might point out DU a man to other patients

ED That's not my interpretation

JR WHat have u read out

NC I havent. She's trying to understand, and this nothing to do w 2 missing issues. Suggesting T

Honestly, read what she actually said before you believe anything someone posts online. IIRC (and I'm not going back to check) she was against inappropriate sex education in primary school, not secondary.

They seem to have suspended her on nothing but his word. And even then they didn't have his full account I don't think.

It is a very different case. She won because her religious belief is protected. Quite different to cases where women's rights are at risk.

identified patients might be at risk. Do u agree? Patients undergoing a similar process..

ED We do treat transitioning patients

NC So pats w GR PC

ED We have transgender patients

NC So concern she might mistreat GR patients

ED U need to ask Melanie

NC So not yr concern No

Stop papering over the cracks with 'Be kind', take responsibility for your own actions

The headless chickens are coming home to roost.