NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

Indeed, and they thought she was killing babies ffs.

Clearly speaking truth to a man is far more of a threat when he holds the power of the magic "T".

It's interesting I think that they said that and gave the impression that it was a chat and then said the decision was to suspend.

This decision was clearly made before the meeting. SP was hoodwinked.

I agree. Look how he tried to rattle Naomi Cunningham. Did his level best. In a situation where she, ostensibly, had the power.

He still went above and beyond to rattle her.

From what ED has said, gender neutral changing was there for Upton to use. She already said other people used third spaces if they didn't want to use communal.

Upton made a deliberate decision to use the women's. He did it on purpose.

And then her Dad had a meeting with managers and got her moved back to the ward and the consultants had to write her a letter of apology!

Sorry, haven't been able to keep up, but from the previous thread

SP always appears quite stern.....

which is exactly what you would expect from a senior nurse in A & E who has seen it all before.

NHSScotland Conduct Policy: Guidance on Suspension. Makes interesting reading as suspension should be a last resort. SP should where practicable be given reasonable notice to organise representation. I would not have convened a meeting within an hour if I genuinely had both parties interests at heart.

SP appears stern, which apparently is bad because women have to be kind and jolly at all times.

Cheer up love, it might never happen

"Smile, love".

'You'd be prettier if you smiled more'

Kind, jolly, and either motherly or sexy, depending on their age and level of attractiveness.

Yes the decision to suspend will have been decided before the meeting. This is all quite normal procedure.

What can't be premeditated is the outcome of any disciplinary hearing.

'Pretend I'm a woman or I'll cry and tell on you'

Upton is a real manipulative arsehole, isn’t he?

Bloody hell, me too. SP was clearly labelled Trump loving right winger and it prejudiced all their actions against her.

My mind is also actually boggled that in all those weeks after SP first raised her complaint that there was a man in the CR, she never thought, I know what might help, how about we ask the man to change somewhere else???

We've seen it with every single trans activist. The women are the target. Not the room

Can I just say "It was Christmas"

I wonder how often this is going to crop up. No "I was driving my car" yet.

I'm struck by the difference between Sandie who opts to leave as normal through the department after this very distressing meeting with her head held high and DU who apparently has to be escorted weeping to his car.

That IS interesting. I was talking about general legal requirements in that case they should have allowed representation.

Is it a bad thing to be stern? Or only for certain categories of people?

I find this so bizarre. You could personally hold the most grotesque views in the world but still I can’t see the connection between those and not wanting to get changed in front of someone of the opposite sex. There is absolutely zero connection.

When I was a student nurse on an 8 week A&E placement the senior Sister was bloody terrifying. Everyone was wary of her take no prisoners attitude, nurses, drs, police, patients. She ruled her dept with a rod of iron but was also very competent at her job.

SP is basically an unsmiling, unkind, uppity middle-aged woman with unsavoury beliefs and a politically incorrect husband.

Burn the witch. 🧙

SP always appears quite stern.....

I don't I agree, I've seen several pics of her smiling, but then I worry that's going to be turned into "meanie old bigot smirks as she goes to court to persecute poor little harmless TW".

Also in other pics I'd describe her as looking no-nonsense and experienced, not stern, but but doesn't matter if she looked like Miss Trunchbull. In a witch hunt anything can be turned against her.

Whatever she looks like, she's female and entitled to a female-only CR, and she's legally allowed to not perceive a TW as female.

Yep. I wish people could see this more clearly. I sometimes feel that people are so desperate for it not to be what it looks like. Unhappy and sad. Feels like a woman. Wrong body.

Bollocks to all of it. This is just what it looks like. It is men attempting to legitimise their access to female only spaces where women are vulnerable and in a state of undress.