NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

Maybe KS will identify as a mute swan?

The answer is i don't know, but now I know what to ask for I can ask - thank you so much. 💐

In my trust, for women 11 is the lower end of the normal range!

'You'll have had your Enlightenment then?'

Fucking hell, this is depressing.

Hmm. So ED got pulled off because she wasn't going along with KS's instant ducking stool line of investigation? Or because they realised they had actually screwed up and tried to fudge a new start?

Facebook group on Ferritin/Iron Deficient Anemia has good info, too.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/theironprotocol/

Continuation thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

Christ Almighty, I'm catching up on this thread and just hit page 25 and a whole hospital of doctors and nurses not being able to understand sex and needing an expert witness and to be told by a lawyer methods of how you can identify sex...

Well i think ED tells the truth mostly ,and guards her real beliefs, and that in all probability she just toed the line as a newly promoted manager, motivated by fear Certainly not TWAW beliefs.

And in her evidence really undermined R’s without any effort.

If anyone living in Fife wants to seek asylum, I have a spare room.

However, I live in Edinburgh. I've got a hospital appointment soon so I'll check out the toilets while I'm there and report back.

Such a common issue.

I've been anaemic my entire adult life. It's been acknowledged in pregnancy and due to miscarriage etc but never properly investigated or tackled. Only when I was completely unable to function and thought I was dying did they give me iron infusions and refer me to a haematologist. I was found to have a platelet disorder (lifelong) that has been ignored forever by every medical professional. The specialist said that they often hear my story, and it's more usually from women. The condition I have is diagnosed 7-15 years earlier in males than females despite women having more "bleeding challenges" such as periods and childbirth that should advantage diagnostic speed.

Whilst I feel disappointed that I spent so many years feeling under par and experiencing medical disinterest, I have had excellent care from the tertiary specialists and am v grateful to have got to where I am now re diagnosis and treatment which prevents the anaemia.

The male doctors I have seen have all had very appropriate grasps on how and why my sex has got me where I am. I can't speak for them but I do not imagine they'd be DU supporters.

I feel sure that ED will go home a nervous wreck tonight. I can feel a smidgeon of sympathy for her because she was completely out of her depth.

OTOH I hope she goes home tonight and 'Peaks' and comes back and says, yes, I know that Upton is a man and I no longer want to make a fool of myself.

@thenosiesttermagant If you have or can get the NHS app you may find the results of any blood tests you've had there. I always check as my gp always says things are normal but sometimes they are not really (i.e. NHS guidance is not desperate but he should do something and he doesnt). Other times things can be normal but right on the border of abnormal, I like to know that.

It was low Ferritin that gave me agonising leg pains, especially at night. I wasn't anaemic though!

If there's no policy or training the responsibility is with the employer

I don't know who that is as a person exactly but it does mean the employer let SP down massively

@NotAGentleReminder Shocking!!

My hair is constantly breaking and super dry!

I will be calling the GP surgery to check if they've checked ferritin levels, doing a search on here and reading up. Thank you!

She has clearly been doing what she has been told and not engaging with any reporting of the ET so has no idea she’s landed them in it loudly and clearly. It is interesting to note that in JR questioning she also framed her involvement with the investigation as an investigation. Given it was about a failure of disclosure she couldn’t undermine her witness who is clear about her own perception. JR couldn’t say ‘ah, you say you were investigating but it wasn’t really an investigation at that point was it’ without seeming to accuse a potential friendly of lying. It makes me wonder about how much JR has been relying on R1 for information without doing due diligence herself. I also suspect KS has hand in the NHSFife decisions about what to disclose and has been excluding her own comms thinking she can claim irrelevance which is clearly not the case. Given that JR hasn’t challenged the IX line it would seem she is going to make a different argument than her original one — which was that KD was not ever involved as an investigator and only gathered statements like a ‘postbox’ (J’s description)

To return tomorrow and tell the truth would be nothing short of heroic.

I wonder if ED is slowly realising this is a whole heap of shit, and right now she's been lined up to take some of the blame

What investigation? I thought JR said there was no investigation before the next investigation? (I'm being ironic here)

So it looks as if Searle had declared SP guilty and even if ED had wanted to oppose her ED was too new, too poorly trained and too out of her depth, too scared and too indoctrinated to actually do anything.

Dropping in late to say this is a wonderful Monteverdi recording:

I imagine they were under pressure because so much time was passing and clocked that KD should never have been leading IX in first place — no training, 3 weeks into job — and that it should have been someone more senior and not LM of SP. Think the reason she was made initial investigation lead was no one wanted to touch it with a barge pole. Enter TRA KS who then seizes the opp to share the consequences and process as she sees fit.

ED should come back tomorrow and declare what pressure she was under and how scared she IS

It is so annoying that tomorrow is the last day for, what possibly 5 months.
There is no way on earth the other witnesses can fail to hear about the shenanigans.

The actual timeline for who knew what and when in the 'investigation that wasn't' is pretty damning.

If JR hadn't been so horrid to SP, I'd feel sorry for her.

The world is watching