NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

JR - email from KS to DU and you. what do you make of that

ED - I had asked for a summary of what had happened, I thought this was clarifying by DU waiting on BMA, getting back to her on her statement,

JR - email from you to DU, read that what did you want DU to provide

I don’t believe he’s fragile. He has claimed to be upset because he believes that is the womanly way to behave. It’s all part of the pantomime.

So has JR lied in court about there being no original investigation?

JR - who made you original IX lead

ED - I wanted DU to provide a written description of what happened on 24th

JR - you said it would be good to have this in writing what did you mean

ED - I had heard there was this other incident with SP leaving the cubicle with the patient, but I wanted the Xmas incident

I'd be unsurprised if he'd brought in some pretty, embroidered cloth handkerchiefs specifically so he could sob into them dramatically.

I suspect that whoever delivered training to NHS Fife was a bit light on 'proportionate means to legitimate end' and balancing the needs of people with different protected characteristics (including Trump supporters).

*waiting to hear back from the BMA" - middle of January...

ED clearly has not watched / see any of this week, she's just dragging them further into a hole of hell for them to get out of (Fife)

so I could begin planning the IX.

JR - you said could give background when interviewed what did you mean

ED - about any other incidents in the CR and the cubicle obs incident.

JR - then you said I want a statement by 25 Jan what was that

ED - i was giving DU a deadline for

Sandie has published a statement- and us mumsnetters get a thank you! But it's the other way round- I am so grateful to her .
https://x.com/nicoleepeggiee/status/1889995534888587309

Sorry, I haven't caught up yet but...

What about a patient's religious belief? Say a Muslim woman wants single sex care because her religion requires it. Even if she perceives Upton as female, it's still breaking her religious law to allow him to treat her and imposing his belief system - that he's literally female even though born male - over the woman's religious belief / law.

Huh? Nevermind a patient safety issue, tell me more about the hurry feelz?

I wanted NC to ask DU what exactly he thought would happen if he saw Sandie again and she challenged him. I know, we've moved on from DU, but seriously would her words have caused literal violence or what? And what did ED think would happen to DU if he heard hurty words again?

I don't understand JR - she's been saying all week there was no initial investigation, that ED's role was merely that of a postbox to receive Upton's statement. Yes now shes saying oh so you did the initial investigation.

I can only assume the missing documents have shown that there was an initial investigation and she's trying to minimise it

Why are all these people telling a bloke he had the legal right to use the female CR? Has the rationale for this been explained yet?

Stern, FFS. Didn't ED mainly meet with Sandie after Sandie had already done a night shift in A&E, having been dealing with god knows what, and the meeting was one where Sandie had the responsibility of handing over crucial patient information in a short amount of time so everyone can get on with the shift but still knew the essentials?

I've just been looking at Friday afternoons substack when JR and NC were arguing about whether there was witheld info

JR....Second confirmation about ED's role. R1s position is she wasn't an investigator or involved in investigation at all

Oh dear

the statement, in advance of a meeting

JR - now the Teams invite, is that the meeting, who was at that meeting

ED - it was supposed to be Michelle but she was off sick and Anne Hamilton (AH) took over from her so she was there. AH was giving me the template to fill out, I had

So has JR confirmed in court that NHS Fife were lying when they claimed ED was not investigating the matter first?

made me tear up and I don’t often do that

already had much of this info. But she said time was going on and we had to get moving.

JR - what did you say

ED - I said I wanted to start getting dates in the diary to speak with people, this is before I knew I would be removed as IX

JR - now looking at suspension checklist

This is all just confirmation that they were doing exactly the shit job of all this that Sandie has accused them of.

And they had they audacity to accuse Sandie of being vexatious!

Bloody hell, what absolute fucking arseholes.

Same. I'm so pleased she's getting so much support. And I'm hoping this is peaking people all over the place.

I imagine Naomi Cunningham and her team are sitting there rubbing their hands with glee, because JR's questioning has produced so many opportunities for them to delve into. ED's bias has been nicely displayed by her own counsel.

A swoon with smelling salts to revive him.

did you refer to this

ED - on 3 Jan, AS brought down this checklist and we referred to it.

JR - email DU to ED: what was DU saying

ED - confirming I would have statement by deadline

JR - another email from DU to you on 23 Jan, what saying

ED - giving me an attachment with