NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

I read that as 'heresy' and it fits just as well 🤬

Could those signs not be ready as upset rather than angry? I bet they would be if Dr U displayed them.

it is, suspension should normally only be for an allegation of gross misconduct.

I think the allegation is harassment which could potentially amount to gross misconduct.

Be interesting to see the suspension letter.

It's probably a good thing for all our blood pressures that we are currently unable to watch live!

ED - when i read that [KS email] it was KS making us aware of having a chat with DU and telling us about next steps, and not have both Beth and Sandie on the same shift.

I mean, Kate Searle is presumable a consultant. She will have had (to sit through) multiple repeated trainings on GDPR, confidentiality etc.

I wonder if it just highlights how much a gaslighting "special" male like Upton can wear people down and gaslight people into going against usual processes.

When you consider how much it took to suspend Letby...!

She absolutely should have had her union rep with her.

Thanks again everyone for getting the information to us when we are still in the black hole of poor IT infrastructure.

How could they not have realised the interest there was going to be in this case?

The staff had accepted Beth as a woman, no need to say anything further

So all the staff who knew they were in an atmosphere of gender ideology flag waving and males being told they can use female spaces in contravention of the law, and who knew that if they made a fuss they'd be the ones who got punished, "accepted Beth as a woman".

Or just possibly pretended they did because they knew they had to to keep their jobs?

She's a consultant, has been for a while - GMC register shows this, I had a look last night.

surely the person giving evidence must be looking back on this thinking ‘I might have messed up a bit here’. Rationally it just seems bonkers.

Well they asked SP if she was ok to continue without rep. I'd have thought they asked that BC policy is that you have right to TU.

I am so very angry with NHS Fife right now.

So she was suspended without any HR input?

This is bonkers. And cruel.

It would have been so easy for Sandie to capitulate, get changed in the bogs or the cleaning cupboard or whatever, but she didn't, she's stood up for all of us.

I'm sure NC will make this point very forcefully.

They got rid of Sandie because they could not stand up to Upton.

It would be so bloody easy, wouldn't it.

Female changing, male changing, gender neutral changing.

But this ideology simply will not allow that.

And we all know it's not the room. It's the women in the room. Take the women out, and the room is just a room. It's the women in it that provide the validation.

Women are the resource.
Sandie was the resource.

Until Sandie said no.

They have absolutely failed to protect all staff here by not having clear policies in place.

Not just Fife. This same scenario would have played out all over the bloody country, in virtually every sector.
This ideology is batshit and evil.

No idea.

If it was a disciplinary hearing it would be a matter of legal requirement but not normally for suspension meetings.

I'd be surprised if it is Fife policy but it is possible.

Personally, I would read "flushed, shaking and quite tense" as upset/distressed/shocked not necessarily angry.

And also, it sounds like SP has every right to be angry! She didn't behave in an aggressive way, so what exactly is the problem?

Place mark

That is an excellent point.

Because all the focus was on Upton. Don't upset Upton. Protect his fragile feelings. That's where they thought the danger lay, and I can't blame them for it. As soon as the words bullying and bigot gets thrown around, people get very frightened. There's also a gendered element to this, as it's well documented that people prioritise the feelings of men over women.

I don't think any of them for a second considered that SP might stand up for herself in the way that she has.

Could well be. Probably a bit of both. And yes it would have been read as very very upset if it was DU.

Just to clarify it is quite legal to suspend someone with very little prior information of the allegation and there is no legal right to accompaniment in a suspension situation.

Employers often have to do this in a serious allegation of wrong doing to ensure they can collate the evidence.

What is not clear is what the alleged act of gross misconduct is, I think. it's harassment but I'm not sure from the evidence so far.