NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

Blimey, you lot, we now need yet another thread. What is in your Tunnock's Teacakes?

Anyway, continuation thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

If a woman were to request (with legs akimbo) a biological female doctor, after a trans Dr being initially assigned, would that be noted on their record as being "troublesome"? Just wondering the general consensus on this? Having had to have many (too many) examinations, and treatments, of that ilk, putting someone in a situation where they have to request a different doctor, whilst being in a vulnerable position, having already requested a fenale doctor, is just not fathomable.

Unfortunately it appears there were many patient safety issues, every time this man with no apparent knowledge of biology stepped in front of one.

Backing up a bit, the more I think about mythical Pete, the more i am convinced he is a stroke of genius.

Pete is not at all hyperbolic, as DU claims, he is precisely the comparator for a trans woman (with no GRC) in the EA.

I hope he is reanimated for the XX of the NHS Fife employees for discussion of case by case consideration of changing room use, any associated policy documents, and the law as it actually is.

Speed mixed with coke

Do NHS Fife not have a Dignity at Work policy, under which a mediation process can be pursued?

So his CV will have his Beth GMC number. That's good.

So he could only change GMC number if he transitioned with or without a GRC. Maybe? I'm not sure if this was the case with him.

If so words fail me. That doesn't happen to me very often.

good read, comments open

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/12/nhs-staff-nurse-police-misgendering-trans-doctor-tribunal/

Breaking JOKE news

Fire services were called to an employment tribunal today, after reports of choking fumes emanating from the women's changing rooms. A fire officer later reported that there was no risk to public safety and the source of the smoke had been quickly identified as a smoldering pair of discarded big girls pants.

I think the alleged incident was the one where she allocated the obs to him. Who does she think is in control, honestly!

@frenchnoodle

What do you mean by this? Do you suspect the judge might be a bit bias but now that all the media attention is around he can't just coast it?

I have the same incling tbh. I cannot for the life of my understand why he allowed DU to waffle on like he did, only to get annoyed with NC for not dealing with missing paperwork and long answers?

This whole trial along now with the lack of open transparency re : open justice is bizarre.

Don't trans men object to being called cis or literal women? I assumed that would be as insulting as calling DU a man?

If this judge had been far firmer right from the start about the orders for all communications to be produced, we wouldn't be in this situation, and NC would be able to carry out her examination properly. I blame the judge for not maintaining appropriate boundaries in the court - including that of his own tme keeping.

Who is he? What sort of reputation does he have?

I'm thinking an appeal might be in order if he scuppers the verdict

Sp was specific
Instead DU says "me by toilets, she presumably, must be between me and door, me and the lockers, in the middle"

So not literally there then

That's exactly what I think.

I keep crossing my fingers toes and boobs that the judge has got the measure of him properly but I'm not convinced

SP challenged DU 'thinking they were male'? No, he is male

I think Upton was wrong in telling the judge they're the same group. Trans men, like those of us who reject the idea that we have a gender identity, are literal women but not cis women. Dunno whether the judge gets that though.

Isn't his defence being funded by Fife Health Board?

what's he need a fundraiser for?

Yes, the timekeeping is also another issue. It makes the whole legal profession look even more money hungry and time wasting (deliberately for the ££,) than they already are

Making justice so out of reach it becomes an impossibility for most of us mere plebs. .

"Treats"

'Love and treats' <vom>

The 'presumably' weakens the 'must be' even further. If he was sure he'd simply say 'she was'. Very telling.

To treat himself after the women were mean to him