NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

Went out for some of the afternoon and came back to find there had been 1,200 posts on this/the previous thread in the meantime. Even previous ET threads haven't been this fast moving.

The mic drop moment. Pure perfection.

And I am loving the posts from the newly peaked/lurkers. Fucking glorious.

And him. What.a.prick.

DU: Has been horrendous. Am someone cares a lot about others, much empathy. Horrible that bcs of being myself it is taken as comparable to torture. Examples comparing to imaginary Pete hyperbolic. Denial of my self. DIsrespectual and uncessary.

Ah ok. To be honest, I was concerned both of them might be a scam, so still good info to know.

He doesn't give a flying fuck about the feelings of female colleagues or patients.

DU: Have been treated horribly, this tribunal has been harassment. Not just for me but for all trans people in the country, just trying to be themselves.

Contemporaneous notes are bullshit anyway. I could write them now re my last interaction with the cat, and he would totally have seen the incident in question differently.

caring about others doesn't extend to women who have asked for same sex care, obvs

J: Thank you doctor, evidence concluded. You can stay or not as you wish for the rest of the proceedigns.

DU: Has been horrendous. Am someone cares a lot about others, much empathy. Horrible that bcs of being myself it is taken as comparable to torture. Examples comparing to imaginary Pete hyperbolic. Denial of my self. DIsrespectual and uncessary.

I can only imagine this live in the court!

Horse bolted, ship sailed, train left station etc etc😄

It's very disingenuous isn't it, because the problem SP has with DU isn't that he's trans, it's that he's biologically (and presumably legally if no GRC) male.

Forcing her to use DU's preferred terminology, she would have to say that she's uncomfortable sharing a changing room with a trans woman. To which the obvious retort is that she is bigoted and transphobic.

Legal process is harassment.

Poor poor DU. Calling a man a man is so horrible.

And @CocoapuffPuff I'm so sorry that happened to your mum.

J: Suggest we start at 10 tomorrow. Who is witness?

JR: Esther Davidson.

NC: Will need to ask ED about all the new material, but also about material we will ask for searches of -

J You haven't asked for, let along got order?

So he's allowed to stay and possibly intimidate witnesses?

Wonder if he's kept a record of treatment he deems disrespectful throughout the ET?

Ah yes, I've heard the 'every misgendering hurts all trans people everywhere' accusation too. More TRA script.

t's very disingenuous isn't it, because the problem SP has with DU isn't that he's trans, it's that he's biologically (and presumably legally if no GRC) male.

Forcing her to use DU's preferred terminology, she would have to say that she's uncomfortable sharing a changing room with a trans woman. To which the obvious retort is that she is bigoted and transphobic.

That's exactly it. And he knows it full well.

And died and yet he keeps flogging it.

I don't think I dare write what I would like to in response to this.

NC: No but I think we can see there still seems to be much missing material and we shall be making a request for an order and will want to ask ED about it. So our suggestion is take 2 other witnesses, Vic Valentine and Isla Bumber, bcs any lacunae won't affect them.

@CocoapuffPuff and @WearyAuldWumman to you both. I'm so sorry. We deserve better than this.

The worst thing is he will deed poll his name and be employed by the NHS for years.

Ah yes. The rallying of people against an individual.

I've heard that would quite distressing somewhere... can't put my finger on it though...

ooh ED should be interesting to say the least